Red Orchestra: Ostfront 41-45 - Page 5

John CANavar · 04-03-2006, 07:01 PM

In my opinion, posting a negative review on the front page (making it look like an official TG review) on a game (RO or another one doesnt matter) is completely wrong for a place like Tactical Gamer.

Objective journalism does not apply here because as far as I know, Tactical Gamer is not in the business of journalism. Tactical Gamer is a gaming community bringing together many different types of gamers. "Tactical" has many different meanings here. For many, BF2 vanilla games are very tactical since we have a great "join a squad or get kicked" script. It is as tactical as they want to get and SOPs, trainings, etc are scary for them. For others, it is almost pointless to play without these standards. From the casual gamer to the hardcore simmer, we are a mixture !

You have to think about the reaction of visitors reading that review. If it is a negative one they will not consider TG as a place to play that game (I have proof of this if you need). Is it the case? No. We have a dedicated and hard working RO player base (altough limited in numbers) with a HUGE potential to expand. Because they love the game and spend a lot of time/effort to develop it. With this momentum, they can easily make RO a TG game. The last thing these guys needed was a front page negative review.

Bottom line: The problem is not the review but the presentation (=front page) of it. I completely agree with Strag. Posting negative reviews on front page is [b]very counterproductive[/] and damage the efforts to establish a tactical game group at TG.

TychoCelchuuu · 04-03-2006, 07:02 PM

When you say "it’s not unusual for the map to end abruptly right in the midst of a valiant defense of the final objective," it appears to me like you had no idea the final objective was being taken. This has never happened to me and I see no way for it to happen to anyone, since there are about a million clues, the least of which being the icon you deemed insufficient. This is what I was trying to get people to understand: RO is not the kind of game where the game ends abrubtly. If it does, you're out of touch for one reason or another, and I was trying to say it's not the game's fault.

Maybe the icon should be bigger. Maybe it should be a naked woman or something that's easier to notice. I don't know. The thing is, it's a complaint I haven't heard outside of you, and it suggests that the inability to notice something flashing on your HUD is not the game's problem.

fldash · 04-03-2006, 07:03 PM

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been hashed out a million times in this thread already. It's quite obvious there are two distinct views concerning RO and our community is most decidedly split down the middle. I apologive for my brashnesss and quite possibly, my intrusion in this thread entirely. Wish you all well.

I'll be hiding out in the RO forums and on the official RO forums trying to recruit an active player-base.

|Pz505|Heinz · 04-03-2006, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tzefanya

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been hashed out a million times in this thread already. It's quite obvious there are two distinct views concerning RO and our community is most decidedly split down the middle. I apologive for my brashnesss and quite possibly, my intrusion in this thread entirely. Wish you all well.

I'll be hiding out in the RO forums and on the official RO forums trying to recruit an active player-base.

I join you, and be there with you man. I signed up for this gig to help build an RO community here at TG. Figured this was a great place to get some awesome RO games going on a semi-permanent basis. let's see what we can do.

(Hmmm,...looked for a big neon flashing icon, so I could grab everyone's attention. could not find one. oh well.

).

**Strag** · 04-03-2006, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John CANavar

Bottom line: The problem is not the review but the presentation (=front page) of it.

Yes, and this is my only issue. I'm impartial to the review itself because it's Tybalt's opinion. I find it to be finely structured and nicely written (well done, Tybalt). However, it's the counterproductive idea of putting Tybalt's opinion on the front page of this site as a representation of the community while others here are simultaneously expected to promote the game that confuses me.

In my opinion, the main question is, "Should we be putting negative reviews on the front page (and possibly hurting the perception) of those games which, at the same time, we're trying to bolster and support here at TG?" In my opinion, this is, again, entirely counterproductive. It's like one half of a family trying to build a house while the other half tears it down.

**asch** · 04-03-2006, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

When you say "it’s not unusual for the map to end abruptly right in the midst of a valiant defense of the final objective," it appears to me like you had no idea the final objective was being taken.

Isn't this what he has been saying all along?

Quote:

This has never happened to me and I see no way for it to happen to anyone, since there are about a million clues, the least of which being the icon you deemed insufficient.

You not having a problem does not mean others don't have a problem. And if we're talking about facts, let's not exaggerate here. A million clues? From what I've read, there are only two "game" clues. The first being an icon that appears on your screen and the second being the flag flashing on the map. From the review, I read it as the icon appearing on the screen was not sufficient for Tybalt. It's sufficient for some, but not for others.

Quote:

This is what I was trying to get people to understand: RO is not the kind of game where the game ends abrubtly. If it does, you're out of touch for one reason or another, and I was trying to say it's not the game's fault.

Many do feel that the game ends abruptly. Maybe this is the intention of the game. Maybe not. But the reviewer noted his impression of it. Does that mean anyone who feels this way is out of touch with the game? Not necessarily. Does it mean it's the game's fault? Of course not.

Quote:

Maybe the icon should be bigger. Maybe it should be a naked woman or something that's easier to notice. I don't know. The thing is, it's a complaint I haven't heard outside of you, and it suggests that the inability to notice something flashing on your HUD is not the game's problem.

Other's have mentioned this. Tybalt is not the only one. Not everyone picks up on the same visual cues as others. Not everyone is right-handed. You haven't heard anyone else mention some of this because it appears you're not listening... rather you seem to be calling the reviewer wrong.

---
Overall I think it was a well-written review that many seem to relate to. Does it express the feelings of everyone? Of course not. Should it? No. Should the review be censored or restricted from being posted because it's not all roses & cream? No.

Now I agree that a review like this on the front-page can be harmful to a recruiting / growing effort for the game. That doesn't mean the review is wrong or there is some fault with the reviewer. Instead of trying to pick at the review and say it's wrong, listen to what is being said by more than just the reviewer and let's all figure out how we can make the game what it needs to be... or if it even has to be changed at all.

TychoCelchuuu · 04-03-2006, 11:37 PM

The problem is, a review shouldn't be right or wrong. We shouldn't be having this discussion. Of course, Tybalt never said it was a 100% objective review; just his opinions mixed in with some facts to give people his overall impression of the game. That's why we need a counter-review or something, and then maybe after all that an objective one.

Mateo · 04-04-2006, 12:04 AM

Ok, so this thread has basically run it's course. We are starting to talk in circles. Unless someone PMs me that there is a pressing need to reopen this thread, I am closing it.

Turbo · 04-04-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TG_Mateo

Unless someone PMs me that there is a pressing need to reopen this thread, I am closing it.

It isn't closed though.

fldash · 04-04-2006, 01:26 AM

Here's a list of reviews for those interested:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/foru...ead.php?t=5424

**WhiskeySix** · 04-04-2006, 03:21 AM

I like this from the IGN review:

As the Tripwire guys told me at GDC, other games of this type want you to feel like you're in a war movie, while RO is meant to make you feel like you're in a war. There are no dots on the map indicating your guys, or waypoints set by a team leader. You won't know where the tanks are, nor can you tag them for other players to briefly see. There are no health packs or medics, although you can distribute ammunition. There are no mechanics to repair your vehicle, nor areas you can drive over to for a quick reload. There's very little gameyness in RO and a whole lot of gritty crawling along the ground so you can flank over to that machine gunner and allow your team to advance to the next spawn point objective.

**CingularDuality** · 04-04-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

The problem is, a review shouldn't be right or wrong. We shouldn't be having this discussion. Of course, Tybalt never said it was a 100% objective review; just his opinions mixed in with some facts to give people his overall impression of the game. That's why we need a counter-review or something, and then maybe after all that an objective one.

A review, by definition, cannot be without criticism. When offering criticism, I don't know that objectivity is entirely possible.

But, as Mateo said, this thread has gotten silly. The review is there for everyone to read. It looks like Mateo forgot to lock this, but he meant to, so I'll do it for him.