John CANavar

Would you agree if I say "No matter what kind of SOPs are developed -simple or complex-, as long as we are talking about a server which is open to public, the level of organization and coordination is limited by the elements embedded into the game mechanics".

All right, RO is a realistic game and during World War II, soldiers were not carrying minimaps on which their squad mates were labeled with green color. But they were grouped into squads and operating according to standard procedures. Organization and coordination were natural consequence of their training and experience as a squad.

A game like RO in which there are few tools to group players, was it an assumption that only "clans" were going to play this game? How realistic it is to bring together a bunch of gamers and expect them to coordinate with each other and accomplish a set of objectives as a squad/platoon? This is UNREAL (ahh irony, engine name is also the same) for a game which is supposed to be realistic. Games like RO has to use "unrealistic" tools (minimap, SL spawn, etc) to compensate for the lack of real-world elements (SOPs used by every single soldier, training, visual advantages). Omitting these didnt make RO any more realistic. One can argue that it made it even more unreal. On the other hand, it can be also argued that it is not the responsibility of the developer to provide cohesion and coordination tools. They simply give you the setting, it is up to you to find out how you are going to play it. No matter which side you are on, a random public server has either none or very limited coordination and that is a problem to solve.

A typical multiplayer game brings together different types of gamers. They are not on the same page when it comes to military tactical/strategy knowledge. They also have different expectations from the game. A mix between immersion/realism gamer joined to server to simulate how it felt on Eastern Front during WWII and a gamer who simply enjoys shooting a target with something no matter when (past, present or future), where (Stalingrad, Iraq, Planet X) or what (K98, M16 or Gravity Gun) is not a good one. It is an invitation to frustration for both parties.

I am not writing all these to complain. I am here to propose the ONLY solution I know for a satisfying session: Pre-planned gaming events . These are just like scrims but require less organizational effort once basic things are established.

Did we try this at TG?

How a pre-planned session works?

- Basic SOPs published on forums which will be known by every player joining the session to provide a backbone for organization and coordination.

- Other things (maps, team players etc) are not needed to be announced. Objective of the event is to play the battles in an organized fashion but without "map specific" plans.

• Squad kit composition
• Squad cohesion system [how to regroup after casulties?; 1) A fixed grid position for each squad? 2) Frontline platoon bounding grid position? ... other alternatives?]
• Assignment of COs, squad members and kits by organizers before the game starts
• Basic CO functions [how to advance your units towards a target in a cohesive manner; using map marker, grid system, basic communication standards between SLs and CO, etc]
• Basic maneuvers (successive/alternating bounding, suppress/flank)
• Radio comm standards [contact reports, sitreps, etc]

- Server password. Will be given to players who are present during teamspeak roll call.

In summary, everyone knows what he/she is supposed to do based on the role they are taking for a cohesive, organized team effort.

RO is dead at TG. Worse, games like RO may most likely share the same fate if we dont step in where developers stopped. I will join to others and say that a game like RO deserves another chance and a pre-planned gaming session may be the only way to keep RO alive here. It may be a small event between 6 players but some prefer a game like that over 64-players chaos any day of the week.

Please share your comments and be constructive. In fact, nothing is new here. We have SOPs, we have RO fans, we have a server but these are not combined somewhat. Idea behind this event is to bring everything together for the best RO gaming experience.

Details of SOPs which is the most important part can be discussed later on. Finding practical, game compatible and effective squad/platoon management procedures to be used by all of us. Before getting into that, lets discuss the concept of "pre-planned gaming event".

Faultline

I don't believe we have the RO server anymore (I could be wrong) but I do like the idea. We would just need to get a good number of folks committed to a certain night, which can be a challenge with time zones, differing schedules, etc.

I think we have the numbers to pull it off though and I would be willing to play this again for sure.

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Mateo

RO was moved to the C&E server, if I recall correctly. The only server that Apophis has killed outright has been Falcon 4.0, since it needs a dedicated server. You can request the server for a Special Event via the proper channels.

Strag

No. With RO at TG, we never got past

I don't like RO because of x.

and/or

I wish RO had y.


Great ideas and great post, Can.



Mateo, you're correct, RO should be available via the C&E server.

Coridon

Yeah, the game is pretty awesome if you stumble across a server where people know where they need to position, etc. But more often than not that's not the case...

I thought about looking into "Iron Crescendo" at one time, but had forgotten all about it until this thread. It's some sort of tournament where they play for four hours straight with pre-planned kits, strategies, etc, if I recall. I don't know how much of a commitment is required, unfortunately. If it's pretty casual and we're having problems getting enough people on the TG server perhaps we could make an outing of it...

Anyway, here's the website if anyone cares to read up. Like I said, it's been a couple of months since I last thought about participating so my memory about the setup is a little foggy.

Strag

Let me restate that TG does NOT have a dedicated RO server anymore. We should, however, be able to run the game by SM request on the C&E server, meaning that it would be running only for the requested period of time, and that it would only be open to SMs.

Can, this would be ideal for what you'd like to try -- TG SMs only on a passworded server.

Mirfee

I'm very interested in this. I don't have the time to orbit RO and wait to see if a crowd gets going. So a preplanned event would be most ideal for me.

I missed the boat with this game when it had it's initial crowd at TG. Now that I've tinkered a bit more, I really like the potential and deplore the flaws. The potential is quite deep with the right people (that's TG ). Overcoming the flaws requires the right objective (something TG does very well ). CAN's suggestion provides a means to achieve both and hopefully generate some momentum and enthusiasm for this game.

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John CANavar

Fellow East Front Dwellers,

I've been working on the organization but it is taking so much time to bring it to the level where I want it to be. I did some tests and things are not working as good as they look on paper (what a surprise !)

I still strongly believe this is the way certain games (OFP, ArmA, RO, GR) should be played. And of course quality over quantity issue (playing an organized game once a week or even month vs playing an unplanned one on the daily basis).

Well, just wanted to let you know. Even if I cannot organize an RO game, I will post ideas on how to solve certain problems such as cohesion and coordination in games like this.

Coridon

The thing about RO is that most of the maps should unfold the same way each round, but because of little coordination and strategic awareness this rarely happens.

Take Arad, for example. From the German perspective, half their tanks should move to the SOUTH FIELD and defend it, for if they lose it they'll not be able to leave their spawn without being obliterated. The remaining tanks should move to NORTH FIELD while all infantry (including Squad Leader) defend SOUTH VILLAGE. SL will call in arty strikes to help clear Soviet tanks out of NORTH FIELD as German armor rolls in, then switches to shelling the NORTH VILLAGE. The German tanks in SOUTH FIELD also shell the NORTH VILLAGE and occasionally two infantry from SOUTH VILLAGE will infiltrate the NORTH VILLAGE to keep the defenders on their toes.

The Soviet strategy should basically be a mirror image and yet you never see this played out. Why? Namely, half your tanks and all your infantry are playing defense. This could never be possible unless an organized event were to take place.

Probably the most inflexible of maps (meaning, it should unfold the same way 99.99% of the time) is Koenigsplatz. The Arad strategy can be tweaked and altered on the fly, but Koenigsplatz has a pretty straightforward gameplan for both sides.

Essentially, the Soviets need to grab the MOLTKE MONUMENT immediately so they have access to artillery. Approximately six infantry escort the IS-2 south and push east with the IS-2 dealing with the German Tiger. SL calls in artillery down the middle of the map towards the SIEGESAEULE, while the remaining six infantry escort the T-34 to push east from north of MOLTKE MONUMENT. The T-34 uses HE rounds almost exclusively, while a second crewman mans the hull MG.

In short, the T-34 + 6 infantry handle the north, focusing on killing infantry.
SL + artillery handles the center.
IS-2 + 6 infantry handle the south, focusing on killing Tiger.
All the while pushing east towards the REICHSTAG.

The German strategy, then, is to counter all of these threats simultaneously. Hold MOLTKE MONUMENT as long as possible but if it falls and you can't retake quickly, you must immediately retreat in a delaying action. The Tiger cannot move up and engage the two Soviet tanks (it will end badly) so it hangs back and fires HE rounds at any movement it sees at Allied held CPs (since all Axis should have fallen back). Hopefully the Tiger draws the Soviet tanks too far forward from its infantry support and German ATs armed with Panzerfausts can eliminate the Allied armor. Also, the German SL tries to sneak close to the nearest Soviet held CP and tosses smoke there so the Allied tanks and infantry both lose situational awareness as they push east.

The things that players on pub servers fail to grasp when playing as Axis are:
1) Tiger acts as anti-infantry; German infantry must deal with Soviet tanks.
2) Don't waste reinforcements on retaking lost CPs; fall back and defend. If you're holding REICHSTAG when the timer ends you win.

Not overly complicated, really, but I've never seen these specific scenarios played out, when they should be rather standard.