Re: First Impressions

**aculle01** · 03-15-2006, 03:35 AM

So far I like what the game is offering despite going my entire first round without a kill.

LIKES:
Satisfying kills
The Commander Role seems to be quite enjoyable. Though can anyone call them in as long as the commander has set a "Smoke" point?
The Weapon being shot out of your hand includes grenades. As part of the late night crowd as the axis we were storming the Church and I came up to the window and was about to toss my potato masher when it got shot out of my hand and subsequently blew me up.
The sounds. You can hear guys breathing near you if they have been sprinting too long.

DISLIKES:
Nothing that hasn't already been said by everyone else. Though I am sure the problems will be solved. I was more focused on finding the right binds as there are a ton of commands. I dont know where to put them all.

**Faultline** · 03-15-2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Hephador

Lastly, did anyone move through the trees at all? I was running through them with Jaymind on a tank map and it lagged the bejesus out of me. It was like there were these 'layers' of pixel walls (don't know how else to describe it) that had gaps between them that pretty much got me lost and seperated from my teammates.

This happened to me as well on one of the tank maps. There was a circle of trees in the middle of the map and I went up to them and went prone. Kind of fell into them and had about 5 minutes of warping around, getting stuck in the pixel walls before I got back out of them. Was very weird.

**Ironsight** · 03-15-2006, 09:50 AM

Completely new to the game and only playing in practice mode so take these comments with a grain of salt:

Likes:

Graphics look great. One of my squad from WWII Online said he liked the graphics in the RO mod much better than the commercial release. Anyone else feel that way?

Friendly fire - You really have to know your target in this game and that is so much more realistic than any other I've played. Dick Cheney wouldn't like this game!

Not too many snipers. Too many could ruin this game IMO. It's about fire and movement and coordinating attack or defense, not sitting in a tower with your lunch waiting for one shot every 5 minutes.

Dislikes:

Dumb bots.

Yeah I know it's all about multiplayer, just wish they were a little smarter to make practice a bit more realistic.

**SmokingTarpan** · 03-15-2006, 10:15 AM

Likes: Feels dirty and gritty

Dislikes: Makes me sick to play, heh. I played single player for about 5min or so last night, and got an incredibly terrible headache right away. Was so bad that I ended up going to bed right then (roughly 5pm) and didn't wake up until I had to get up for work this morning. I'll adjust some things and try again when I have free time on Friday, but this game is probably unplayable for me.

**Strag** · 03-15-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tzefanya

The comments I'm seeing are pretty much what I expected. I remember my first night of beta... oh, how I disliked it so. The clunky movement, the lack of teamwork, etc...

Then a few game sessions later after I let it soak in I played again and was pleasantly surprised. Especially when the server was full of TG players.

I can almost assure you that most of the people coming from the BF2/DOD/CS genre are going to dislike it for a while. It's a different type of game.

Yes, it seems most folks are having the typical first reaction to RO.

Almost all of us who beta tested felt the same way for the first few days that we played. This game really does have a steep learning curve.

I'm not too concerned about the general lack of teamplay last night. When most folks are just trying to figure out basic things like how to go prone or how to throw a grenade, it's hard to concentrate and worry about tactics. It's the whole "lean to crawl before you walk" scenario, but played out in a video game. It's going to take a little while to learn the game itself (especially the maps) before we start applying higher level tactics.

I think the first week will mostly involve people working out the kinks of setting up controls properly, getting VOIP to work, and just taking in the game. I get the impression from some folks that, just because they know the Battlefield 2 maps and gameplay inside and out, they should instantly know Red Orchestra's maps and gameplay as well. I assure you, this is not the case. It will take some time for us to learn this game individually and as a community.

I CAN tell you, from my experience with the beta test, that once this game "clicks" for you, it offers a lot of possibilities as a tactical shooter. Interestingly, so far it seems most folks are more pleased with the infantry maps than they are with the tank maps. In the beta test, it was the other way around. Most of us from TG seemed to enjoy the tank map right away, with the infantry map being slower to grow on us.

As a side note, things like mantling (being able to climb/crawl over objects like sandbags and low walls) and being able to jump over low objects are on the developers' list of items to implement. Hopefully these things will come soon.

**Gixxer_USMC** · 03-15-2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by perry

Like:
It was only 25 bucks
Satchel charge!

Dislike:
Shoulda waited for a demo or free weekend and kept my 25 bucks. After playing for 4 or 5 hours, I don't think this is a game for me. I'll try it a few more times to see if I enjoy it more so I can really give it a fair shake, but...

Moving - Running around is klunky at best. There's so many obstacles I can't get over. There feels to be too much duck'n'weave or something as you run.. I actually have a headache after playing.

Tanks - will take some getting used to, but my first impression was that I don't like em.

friend/foe identification - gotta figure out how to tell what team I'm on and then memorize uniform and tank colors. The messages tell me "Allies took control of such-n-such".. I bring up the scoreboard and can't see which side is allies.. 138th Infantry means nothing to me.

Map - where are my teammates? I see my waypoint, but I have to keep pulling up that damn map to figure out where to go. Is there an indicator on the compass that I missed?

Shooting - deadly, and that works both ways. Kill the other dude in one shot, but getting killed in one shot from a random direction was annoying. A good 50% of my deaths were from unknown enemies.. Running in to a guy in a stairwell or someplace else close was disasterous.. came down to who was luckier.

VOIP - terrible. Not being able to use hardware accelerated sound is rather unfortunate.

I Think I am in the same boat as Perry ..... I really don't think the game is for me.

Battlefield 2 has become a "BENCHMARK" in my eyes and while some people may like the type of Gameplay RO brings to the table.... I prefer the BF2 gameplay MUCH better.

Likes:
Tank Battles and the roles that the tank crew play.
Kills are a little more difficult and therefore satisfying
I dig slamming the butt of my rifle into someones face ...

Dislikes:
Graphics - animation is bad
No team play ( atleast so far BUT, I really don't see how this can be set-up )
No MINI map - atleast that stays up so you can navigate better.
VOIP

As the topic states, these are my FIRST Impressions.
I will play it a little bit more and will probably become something I play when I need a break from BF2 and Falcon4: Allied Force

**TychoCelchuuu** · 03-15-2006, 12:00 PM

I played for another half an hour last night. This is probably one of my favorite games of all time. If it had attack helicopters it would easily be better than BF2

It's kind of disheartening to hear so many people say "no teamplay." I mean, COME ON! It's been out for 2 days! This is a very deep, complex game. It takes time to learn how to shoot, how to throw grenades, how to clear a building, how to stay in cover, how to drive or gun in a tank. I think it'll be about a week before I stop teamkilling people with grenades left and right. And you guys want perfectly coordinated teamplay on the SECOND DAY!?!

Battlefield 2 is a great game, but it's also very simple. The gameplay mechanisms are very similar to other first person shooters. Combine this with the squad interface and teamplay got going pretty quickly. But Red Orchestra is not Battlefield 2. In BF2, if someone in your squad messes up and doesn't see someone, it's okay. You just shoot them. But in Red Orchestra, if someone gets behind you, you're all dead meat. There is little margin for error in this game; it takes tactics and coordination, and none of that is going to come without A. Experience and B. Patience.

I think you'll agree that most of the players on our BF2 server are pretty good. If they went into a pub, they would be #1 or 2 on their team consistently without even trying. But this is not Battlefield 2. We do not know how to play Red Orchestra yet. We are going to get shot, stabbed, whacked, exploded, and KILLED for a good amount of rounds, and why? Is it because the game is bad? Is it because nobody uses teamwork? No, it's just that we have to get used to the game. Learn how the guns work, learn how to employ tactics.

Give it time. Give it a week. Give yourself enough time to learn how the classes work together, the layout of the maps, and most importantly how to move, shoot, and communicate. Then you can go and say "I want more teamplay." But until I know how a machinegun works (when do I swap out the barrell?), I am not going to lead a squad. And I don't think you guys should expect someone too.

**Mateo** · 03-15-2006, 12:08 PM

I was only able to play for a few minutes last night, due to World of Warcraft Guild drama. What time I did get in made me want to get into the game more.

Likes:
General feel of the game
Rewards slow, methodical game play
You need to target, not spray and pray
Only 1 sniper per team

Dislikes
Movement animation is stilted-just like in the mod. Thought they would have fixed that by now.
VOIP isn't great.

A really fine addition to TG.

**AMosely** · 03-15-2006, 12:42 PM

I definitely enjoyed playing, and I do like the game. I actually did a lot better than I thought I would, and the learning curve was pretty minimal. The sniper rifle was the most deadly thing out there by far - I racked up about a dozen kills with it, probably more than all my other kits combined. Boy those bolt-actions are frustrating. However, the more I think about it, the more I think I like BF2 TacMod better - it simply has more to offer, and is more entertaining to me. Between RO and TacMod, though, I have no interest in playing vanilla BF2 ever again.

My short list:

Likes:
- Slowed down pace is a real relief from BF2 vanilla
- Environment is dynamic, and cover is excellent
- Sound effects are quite something
- Openable and closeable doors. The "behind the door" battles were a lot of fun
- Realistic weapons are great
- Realism overall is great

Dislikes:
- Clumsy feel, delayed reactions are realistic but frustrating
- Almost total lack of navigational aids - such as locations of teammates, orders, waypoints, anything. It's tough to balance these aids yet maintain realism, but I find myself wanting them.
- The map is crude and difficult to interpret - buildings look like farm land, farm land looks like buildings, etc. This combined with the lack of nav aids make finding your way around really tough - so tough that you sometimes die while you're looking at your map, scratching your head. That really sucks.
- No squad based play and communication. VOIP options are limited to entire team, which doesn't lend itself well to splitting up into squads.
- No medics. I don't think we need revives here, but if I get shot in the arm, it would be nice to be able to have a squad mate patch it up.

These are just first impressions, though. I do like the game, but think it needs some tweaks. I also still like Tactical Mod and don't think we should give up on that, in fact given the choice, I'd rather play tacmod - it's just so much more dynamic and entertaining.

**jaymind** · 03-15-2006, 12:43 PM

Damn, I had a long reply here but I accidently hit the back button on my mouse and lost it all.

Let me just say that overall I liked the game very much. The iron sights+ballistics are amazing to play with - shots actually go where you want to and nobody gets nailed in the chest and can turn around and kill you.

There are some issues that need to be worked out - VOIP being one of the biggest. Also, this game really favors tactical play but doesn't give you the tools that lay the foundation for good tactical play, such as squads and better voip.

Some of the graphics anamolies were disheartening - trees that warp you all over the dang place (2D trees at that - all alpha textures?) and the clipping issues.

Jumping and mantling are a big issue and hopefully they can get these in the game very soon.

The game has potential for us at TG, but it will take some work and it will take some effort to get over the hump as far as the learning curve goes.

**Marconi** · 03-15-2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by AMosely

- Almost total lack of navigational aids - such as locations of teammates, orders, waypoints, anything. It's tough to balance these aids yet maintain realism, but I find myself wanting them.

You know what I'd like, to offset the lack of peripheral vision and knowing who's speaking? A "spotted" like functionality (that BF2 has) that gives estimated direction and range in relation to people NEAR you.

So if you're within 15-20 ft of the player who spotted someone, you can get a "enemy right, far" or "enemy straight ahead, near" communication. No dot, no minimap, no name tag ... but at least you know someone near you is giving you warning. The way it is now, it's hard to tell who's giving the warning (we can't do hand gestures to point in directions) since VOIP all comes from the same direction, and all player characters look identical...

I have no idea if this is possible

It'd be a good start towards overcoming technical limitations of playing on-screen though.

**icky** · 03-15-2006, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by TychoCelchuuu

It's kind of disheartening to hear so many people say "no teamplay." I mean, COME ON! It's been out for 2 days! This is a very deep, complex game. It takes time to learn how to shoot, how to throw grenades, how to clear a building, how to stay in cover, how to drive or gun in a tank. I think it'll be about a week before I stop teamkilling people with grenades left and right. And you guys want perfectly coordinated teamplay on the SECOND DAY!?!

No need to get angry. If you didn't want to hear FIRST impressions, then you shouldn't have looked at this thread. Nobody said they wanted perfectly coordinated teamplay. They just observed that there was hardly even a hint of teamwork.

Did the people who played the beta come up with a system for teamwork, or does it just become acceptable that it doesn't exist? Hell, maybe you don't need it. If everyone moves slowly enough, you would always be close to people. Feel free to share your insight.

Seems to me that fluid squads has to be the way to go. After respawn, you wait at an initial launching point until you have a group of 3-4 guys to form a squad, then you move out together and you stick together. If there is a stranded soldier on the field, he radios back that he needs help, and you try to lead your squad to rescue him.

I don't think TS rooms are the answer.

**Obi** · 03-15-2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by icky

I don't think TS rooms are the answer.

I agree. Thats why the TS rooms are only for any planning you want to do before the match starts. VOIP is used once the game has started.

**TychoCelchuuu** · 03-15-2006, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by icky

No need to get angry. If you didn't want to hear FIRST impressions, then you shouldn't have looked at this thread. Nobody said they wanted perfectly coordinated teamplay. They just observed that there was hardly even a hint of teamwork.

Did the people who played the beta come up with a system for teamwork, or does it just become acceptable that it doesn't exist? Hell, maybe you don't need it. If everyone moves slowly enough, you would always be close to people. Feel free to share your insight.

Seems to me that fluid squads has to be the way to go. After respawn, you wait at an initial launching point until you have a group of 3-4 guys to form a squad, then you move out together and you stick together. If there is a stranded soldier on the field, he radios back that he needs help, and you try to lead your squad to rescue him.

I don't think TS rooms are the answer.

Oops, did I sound angry? I'm not.

**Strag** · 03-15-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by AMosely

- No squad based play and communication. VOIP options are limited to entire team, which doesn't lend itself well to splitting up into squads.

There are actually three different VOIP channels built into the game:

- Local channel (to talk only to people within about five meters of you) -- the default key to switch to this channel is Delete

- Team channel (to talk to your entire team) -- the default key to switch to this channel is End

- Public channel (to talk to everyone on the server) -- the default key to switch to this channel is Home

The problem right now is that folks just aren't familiar with the VOIP channels and how to use them properly. This will come in time.

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