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03-24-2006, 05:10 PM #1
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Oklahoma City, OK
- Age
- 32
- Posts
- 998
Server Feedback Weekend...
That's right! I'm challenging you to actually play RO this weekend. Give this game the play time it deserves. Take the time and give yourself a chance to enjoy the $25 your spent on the game.
I'm really disappointed with the following the Tactical Gamer community has given RO especially after the poll showed over ninety (90+) TG members were going to purchase the game. I guess many of us were spoiled by all the 'features' BF2 had to offer when really all it did was handicap us for future games that require higher level of thought, tactics, planning, etc. I believe RO could have a great future here at Tactical Gamer and I want to do everything in power to make that possible.
Remember all the posts before the game was released by the beta testers that told you to be ready for a shell shock? My personal story is that after playing the beta the first night I cancelled my preorder. I was disgusted, aggravated, etc. Despite my feelings, I continued playing the beta (after all, it was free). Soon I began to fall in love with the way the tactical elements come into play in RO. After around 5 or 6 hours of playing, I was hooked. I re-preordered the game and kissed Battlefield 2 goodbye.
We've discussed having a 'realism' server and a more stock-type server. We are prepared to offer these things to the community as long as support is shown.
I have completed the mutator to adjust both the round duration and the reinforcement timers, the polls for these our in this forum: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/red-orc...d-development/ - I'm also working on a FadeToBlack mutator that will fade your screen to black after your death (to avoid 'spec info'), a ServerAds mutator (for game messages), and a mutator for reserved slots. Some other things I'd like to look into are FriendlyTag distance line of sight issues, and the possibility of removing or modifying certain map objectives.
Here's how this is going to work:
Post all your feedback from your weekend experience here. This includes server performance. I rebooted our server (hardware) and adjusted the only .ini setting I feel may help our servers performance. Remember, server #1 is also running a 1.5x map time and a 2.0x reinforcement timer.
Note the changes that you'd like to see made to the server (including code changes which may be possible in a mutator). Also specify on which server you'd like to see the changed made available. Server #1 is being labelled our standard server, #2 our 'realism' server. You may also want to note the modifier values (Round/Spawn) you'd like to see on each server. Keep it clean and constructive please.
Thanks for your support.
Current Server Settings:
Server #1: All Maps, All Death Messages, 1 Round, Decreased FF Damage on Explosions/Artillery, 1.5x Round Time, 2.0x Reinforcement Time, View Self Only On Death.
Server #2: All Maps, No Death Messages, Best of 3 Rounds, Full FF Damage, Default Round/Reinforcement Times, View Self Only On Death.Last edited by fldash; 03-24-2006 at 06:07 PM.
It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9/NIV
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03-24-2006, 05:43 PM #2
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
Your wording makes it sound like the TG members owe something to this game. I'm afraid that's not how it works. We come here to play, and we play what we enjoy most. If you are asking people to volunteer their time to try the game again, then you should word it that way for a better response.
Originally Posted by Tzefanya
Maybe I can help you understand through my experience, since I was on that list.
I bought the game, and I played it a little on the first and second days that it was here. I found it to be pretty poor, since it was lacking so severely in the area of teamwork. The players around me could have been bots, as they spawned next to me and then ran forward toward some enemy that was out there.
It seemed some serious work had to be done, so I chose to let the RO leaders take care of doing that work. I am really waiting for someone to say "Hey, check it out now! We worked out an AWESOME teamwork system!". I want it to be a good game, but so far it has done nothing for me.
I haven't been following too closely, but I would imagine there are similar stories out there.
I will gladly come check it out if there is an event this weekend. Especially if you guys are gonna show me how much better it is.Peace through fear... since 1947!
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03-24-2006, 05:59 PM #3
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Oklahoma City, OK
- Age
- 32
- Posts
- 998
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I don't think the TG members 'owe' the game anything. I'm simply disappointed that the game hasn't had a better welcoming here. What's wrong with me being disappointed? I want the game to succeed because I like it, therefore, as much as we can argue and say it's too early to say it's 'failing', it's obvious it doesn't have the following we expected it would. I'm not casting judgement on those who dislike it, I'm simply asking players to give it another shot this weekend.Your wording makes it sound like the TG members owe something to this game. I'm afraid that's not how it works. We come here to play, and we play what we enjoy most. If you are asking people to volunteer their time to try the game again, then you should word it that way for a better response.
In addition, TG obviously spent some money on the server and I think any supporting member owes it to themself to give the game another chance. If that happens to come on an 'event weekend' instead of my personal 'feedback weekend', I'm fine with that.
As many of you know, I'm pretty new around here. I simply expected more dedication to a game that TG has decided it would support with a server.
With regards to teamwork, I think that someone has to step up and take control. Battlefield 2 simply catered to those without a clue, being organized was made as simple as possible. That's great for Battlefield but bad for other games that don't want to hold the player's 'hand'. I assure you the administration team is working on different ideas to help promote teamplay on the server, but without TG people leading the way (even if that includes stepping out of your comfort zone) and setting the examples, we might as well just be any other gaming 'community' on the 'net. However, I have higher standards than that for us.It is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9/NIV
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03-24-2006, 06:38 PM #4
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Posts
- 155
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I think the problem is precisely that we haven't integrated a proper 'teamwork mode' (the Command Structure thread is right on, but we're not really following it consistently) yet. The best sessions I've had were definitely when someone would step up in the commander role and get some squads/assignments going (you two, secure the tower; you three, watch the northwest side; you two, wait at location X for my signal, don't fire unless spotted; you five, launch a main offensive from the south, keep the enemy under pressure; you, follow me, etc).
I love the game, despite its flaws. The lack of a squad system is what I find most unfortunate, but the gameplay in and of itself shines, and we really need to integrate into TG properly. I enjoy the firefights much more than I did those in BF2's demo (the deathmatchy nature lead me to not bother getting it). We just need to add a proper system to it. I think that longer respawn times and decreased reinforcements are essential steps for this to happen. After all, if you just die and pop up again, then rinse and repeat, there is lesser incentive to apply teamwork optimally. A proper command structure ('squads', with chains of command) is the next step.
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03-24-2006, 06:59 PM #5
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
It seems to me that RO trys to put as many obstacles to teamwork in front of you, and then try to tell you to magically get a cohesive team together and defend/attack objectives as a group. Here are the obstacles:
Cant see player tags. How am i going to tell my buddy 20 feet in front of me that he has an enemy on his right, that he should fall back, move forward, etc. If i cant tell him anything by name, its impossible for him to know im talking to him. The inability to see player tags also means setting up defense is next to impossible unless your a well drilled in house squad, of which there arent any yet for RO. Since you cant see where anyone else in your area is or where they are looking, you cant get people to really cover all directions and get the right kits in the right spots. Thus, orders for attack or defend are extremely generic and dont allow you to really set up an organized assault or defense.
On top of not being able to see player tags, you cant see friendlys on a minimap or something like it. Most of the time, you will have absolutly no idea how many guys you have with you on defense or attack, and of course thats a drawback. In real life you would have spacial awareness all around you for quite a distance and know where your teamates are. In the game, its damn near impossible to know where your friendlys are in relation to you without doing a 360 every few seconds. A minimap easily lets you get by this common fault in most games because with one click glance you can see your friendlys in your area.
No squad structure. This results in either nobody or everybody trying to be leaders, and it gets very confusing quickly. Even if you get one or two solid leaders, they will be extremely ineffective because of the fact that they dont really have a predefined squad layout. If you try to get people to follow one leader, it will quickly fail because its too hard to remember 5 or 6 names every round that will be following you.
The last obstacle to teamwork i can think of is that the fact that its so easy to die, that even if you were travelling with several teammates, they would surely be dead pretty quickly, and youd again be left to yourself.
With all these obstacles, its going to take a brilliant idea to get any sense of teamwork going on in our server. If we dont think of something within a couple weeks, i personally will not be showing up very much, and i seriously doubt the majority of the rest of the players will keep playing much, either. Our current system, with the Sgts, Privates, Lts, and Cpls is decent, but all it does is shove players in one direction very loosely. It assures (i use that word lightly) that at least some amount of players are going in a direction together. It does not keep people together well because of the aforementioned obstacles, and thus you occasionally attack a control point at the same time, though in all likelyhood you ended up approaching it mostly by yourself.
My idea, which i have stated before, is to make it mandatory to group up with people you spawned with, discuss briefly what objective you are going to and from what direction, and then move out together. A "Lt" could try to keep these impromptu squads in line and keep the teams objectives in mind. A "Lt"s orders would have to be generic because of the fact that he cant see where any of his squads and teamates are on the map. At least in this idea, you have the potential of people sticking together in small squads.
As of now, and i say this honestly, the amount of teamwork RO offers is about equal to the amount of teamwork you see on public BF2 servers. Going to the TG bf2 server after playing on the RO server was like night and day. To salvage this game, we absolutly have to get an SOP on how teamwork and squads will work, and then enforce it. If we dont, i will stop playing and im sure others will as well.
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03-24-2006, 07:02 PM #6
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I agree, I wish more people would give RO a another chance. I see alot of you on the server, but I bet there are alot of people who gave up on the first day.
This game indeed ROCKS. There nothing wrong w/ it in general. When people use the builtin voip and stick to the objectives it plays nice. In the first few days of release alot of us just ran around DM style, I beleive alot of that changes and most of us follow our orders and take objectives.
I do see teamwork on the TG server, not the best, but its getting better. I'll see ya on the battlefield this weekend, damn I am going on now

x-fire = bananajuice
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03-24-2006, 07:20 PM #7
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I'm one of those 90+ who bought it and one of the few (or many) who have found it lacking.... for many of the reasons Santa mentioned. You can also see both of my reviews on my blog.
Originally Posted by Tzefanya
To say that BF2 handicapped us isn't necessarily an accurate statement. BF2 does have some "gamey" features, but it also has features that mimic some realism aspects that games just can't reproduce. Again, see many of the comments in my blog and those Santa stated. I actually think it takes more effort to work as a team in RO than it would in real life.
I'll do my best to make it onto the server this weekend and provide more feedback. However when it comes to the longevity of the game for me, I don't see that happening. I don't have the time to dedicate to make the teamwork work. I'm all for realism, teamwork, tactics, etc... but with limited time to play, there's no room for practicing with the same group of people to get the teamwork that is required.
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03-24-2006, 07:38 PM #8
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I think this was because many folks thought RO would be just like BF2, so those who like BF2 signed up for RO.
Originally Posted by Tzefanya

Regarding teamwork in games:
I feel the onus lies on the players to provide teamwork, not the game. Certainly a team-based tactical shooter should have tools in place to allow for teamwork, and I believe Red Orchestra does that. There are different player classes; there is a built-in communication system; there are objectives; there is a map and a compass for navigation. In my opinion, these are all the tools needed for teamwork, and it's up to the players to properly use them.
Again, these are my opinions. I like Red Orchestra and find it a refreshing change from the other games I play here. I enjoy the game's intense "fog of war," and I enjoy the challenge of trying to overcome it. I enjoy the game's aspects of realism, and I like the time period in which the game is set. In the week-and-a-half since Red Orchestra's launch, I've already had some great times playing it. As with other games here at TG, some folks will play Red Orchestra and some won't; I look forward to playing more with those who do.
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03-24-2006, 08:31 PM #9
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
Well, I certainly didn't expect BF2, and the game definitely has some great features. Four 1stMIP tried "squadding up" Thursday and it didn't work out well for us. I've played this game for its $22.50 worth, but here are some things that need to be fixed before I revisit the field (taken from my post in the 1stMIP forums):
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1) "Bodies in the cap zone". Increasing the round timer will help, but right now it's ridiculous. I actually have to hand it to the pubbies playing Thursday because whenever attacking they came all at once, which is what you have to do in this game. CHARGE CHARGE CHARGE!!! Zerg-style, baby.
2) Defense: again, those guys knew where to set up. On that last map I played (Boskova??) they had every route roadblocked (there isn't much room to maneuver on these maps, honestly) and then called in arty onto our spawn. Once people learn these maps I really feel the attackers don't have much of a chance. Zerg style meets deployed LMG = lots of dead Zergs.
3) "Hitting" targets and nothing happening. Wednesday I played Hedgehog as a German tanker and hit at least 10 enemy players with the tank MG or HE shell and only killed one. Some of the shells literally hit the player and they kept on truckin'. I really would expect it to slow them down a little, maybe even injure them. One of the funniest was a guy was "hiding" behind a four inch thick sappling and I fired about five HE rounds at him, the tree, the ground around the tree; there was nowhere I could hit to kill him, even though I could obviously see 98% of his body. Thursday (on Boskova again) I saw a guy lying prone and levitating off the ground about 15 feet away from me and I fired, he fired, I fired, he fired. I emptied the entire clip, and we're talking BOLT ACTION. I decided there was something wrong (he obviously did too) so we fixed bayonets, I stabbed him first, blood spurted everywhere, and then I was dead.
4) "levitating" (+ lag). Sometimes I'll be behind some cover and try and rest my rifle on a crate, etc., and then suddenly I'm floating 14 inches above the crate and can't move. This happens all the time. Whenever I play sniper I see it happen to others over and over (see above), and I'm not exactly sure where to shoot, but when it happens to me I'm instantly dead. I thought I would like the "resting" feature of weapons, but I spend an ungodly amount of time trying to find something that I can stabilize my rifle on. More often than not it has to be something higher than your field of vision, and if you try to rest it on something chest high, it doesn't stabilize. That's insane.
5) Unable to organize. We tried to play with fireteams but everyone looks the same without name tags. In "real" combat soldiers do things to individualize themselves. They're shorter, taller, skinnier, fatter, and walk differently than others in their squad. When you ask where someone is you can tell by where their voice is coming from. None of these exist in-game, so there's no way we can play together as a "team".
6) Maps are really small and offer only a couple of approaches to each CP. The maps are really the size of 16 player BF2 maps, but there's "paths" or "corridors" between CPs so there's little room to move tactically. A couple of the maps are alright, but most of them what you're going to do and what the enemy is going to do is 90% predictable.
7) To succeed, you need all 16 players on your team to be on the same page. Even at TG, that's not going to happen. You need the sniper to fulfill their duties, the commander to organize and call arty, the LMG'ers to play their part, etc. If you have a weak link it's going to be incredibly frustrating, but it's comforting to know the other side is probably suffering the same dismal fate...
8) Can't get over 16 inch high obstacles. Defending on Boskova I've literally been "trapped" in that last spawn because I couldn't get out of that destroyed farmhouse with debris everywhere. It wasn't the German sniper that confounded me, it was the tiny laticework that I couldn't overcome!!
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Not the whole post, but everyone can get the gist. I like playing the game, but with at
least eight glaring flaws it's going to be tough to try and play on a regular basis.
I've not given up all hope, though...and if I do, there's TacMod to comfort my pain!!!
And firewater. Don't forget the firewater.|TG-1stMIP|Coridon

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03-24-2006, 08:32 PM #10
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
In my opinion, if you put TG members with other TG members you get teamwork. The whole server falls apart when it gets filled up with people that don't follow our rules of how we play the game. I have fun and I enjoy the game so look for me this weekend.
Sincerely
Pvt.|TG-2nd|Vod"If the sword is always sheathed, it will become rusty, the blade will dull, and people will think as much of its owner." —Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai
I prefer a challenge and teamwork rather than a stat loading server without sound tactical ideals.
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03-24-2006, 08:43 PM #11
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
Actually, I would say that most people who bought it thought it would have the teamwork aspect of BF2 with more realism. I don't think anyone thought the gameplay itself was going to be like BF2.
Originally Posted by Strag
Rather than appealing to the folks internal to TG, the majority of whom came for BF2, you guys should set your sights on being the best darn RO server out there, and draw upon the general RO population. THAT is the best way to fill the server long-term, because it doesn't rely on convincing BF2 players that there is something better to play.
Asking people to try it again isn't going to do anything unless something has changed since the last time they tried it. I hope you realize that.Peace through fear... since 1947!
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03-25-2006, 11:15 PM #12
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
Saturday night 9:00 PM CST server #1 is running fine because it is just me and the crickets playing :-(
"Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl."
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03-26-2006, 12:33 AM #13
- Join Date
- May 2005
- Posts
- 155
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
Hmm, and I guess tomorrow won't be very populated because of TacMod.
Mayhaps we should set aside a night for RO?
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03-26-2006, 12:38 AM #14
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I think that would be the best thing to do.
Originally Posted by Llyranor
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03-26-2006, 10:20 AM #15
Re: Server Feedback Weekend...
I liked where we were going with CoD2, that was some great gaming. I think with RO we could have some good times.
Originally Posted by Bonehead
I guess I will try to whip these crickets into shape to play both games :-)"Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be an ugly brawl."
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