FallOut 3 TALK - Page 6

**Twisted_Firestarter** · 11-05-2008, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarenth

Also, related to what someone else mentioned, the gunplay is NOT based on statistics when not using VATS. If you aim at something and fire at it, then odds are you're going to hit it unless the weapon itself is a factor (no long range headshots with a shotgun).

From what I've read in the developer journals as well as my own experience, this is not true. Gunplay is stats driven regardless of if you are using VATS or not. I've had numerious times early on in the game when I would sneak up on an enemy and shoot them several times point-blank and miss all but one shot. Later in the game when using a sniper rifle I've had many shots that are dead-on miss.

It's an easy experiement to prove one way or another. Get a sniper rifle, find a distant non-moving target--bloat flys are good--use vats to see the hit percentage. Try to get a target with a single-digit hit percentage on a particular body part. Try to hit that body part without using VATS. Your chance to hit will be the same if you use VATS.

Spyder · 11-05-2008, 04:33 PM

Yeah, the oblivion engine definitely doesn't have complicated FPS like bullet tracking. You just have the gun firing animation, and the varied spread/bullet animations, and then the rest is mathed out.

Evo<^|SiNz|^> · 11-05-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted_Firestarter

From what I've read in the developer journals as well as my own experience, this is not true. Gunplay is stats driven regardless of if you are using VATS or not. I've had numerious times early on in the game when I would sneak up on an enemy and shoot them several times point-blank and miss all but one shot. Later in the game when using a sniper rifle I've had many shots that are dead-on miss.

It's an easy experiement to prove one way or another. Get a sniper rifle, find a distant non-moving target--bloat flys are good--use vats to see the hit percentage. Try to get a target with a single-digit hit percentage on a particular body part. Try to hit that body part without using VATS. Your chance to hit will be the same if you use VATS.

Agreed, when I was still low skill in small guns, I was trying to clear some mines by shooting them with the hunting rifle, and for the love of god could not hit them even from a few meters away with the way the bullets were deviating. It's improving now that I'm up past 50 in that skill, but they still deviate quite a bit from the reticule, even while crouching. I was trying to plink at a super mutant's head with the hunting rifle to get a crit shot while sneaking, and all I did was piss him off after I missed.

shoopdewhoop · 11-10-2008, 06:11 PM

Ahhhh. That would explain why my shooting at mines in the Minefield from 2 feet away kept missing. First I tried from many feet away, then gradually crept closer while shooting. Never did blow it up. Switched to a pistol, blew it up on the first try.

Evo<^|SiNz|^> · 11-11-2008, 10:52 AM

I'm up to 85 skill in small guns, and my shots still deviate quite a bit when I'm playing in real time. I think it may always have the same crappy real time deviation during real time, but greatly improve your damage and accuracy in VATS? I'm not sure. On the bright side, I can own a Super Mutant in two shots with my hunting rifle now.

Spyder · 11-11-2008, 04:34 PM

I went through my second play through and didn't drop a single point into any weapon skill through level 10. You end up with like a 50% damage increase with a high skill level, and your vats accuracy over range is significantly improved. Since my primary combat style involves point blank combat shotgun to the face.....necessary not so much.

But low big weapons skill means vats with the fatman and such is rarely above 20% at any decent range, so I'll probably start dumping points into that for fun seeing as my science/repair/sneak/lockpick/medicine/speech are all upwards of 80 now.

Evo<^|SiNz|^> · 11-11-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder

I went through my second play through and didn't drop a single point into any weapon skill through level 10. You end up with like a 50% damage increase with a high skill level, and your vats accuracy over range is significantly improved. Since my primary combat style involves point blank combat shotgun to the face.....necessary not so much.

But low big weapons skill means vats with the fatman and such is rarely above 20% at any decent range, so I'll probably start dumping points into that for fun seeing as my science/repair/sneak/lockpick/medicine/speech are all upwards of 80 now.

I think I'm going to play a character like that on my second go-round. I'm missing out on a lot of terminals and safes b/c my lockpick and science are so damn low. I have been putting a lot into medicine, but I rarely need to heal because I kill just about everything so quickly.

Spyder · 11-12-2008, 10:33 AM

Yeah, I started out high int (7) used a couple early intense training to bump it to 9, pushing Lockpick speech and science up above 50 early. Then I started filling out with medicine, repair and sneak.

those three stats are the most useful IMO. speech gives you all kinds of bonus or skip options, and lockpick/science opens up all kinds of gear for you early. Combat skills really aren't necessary. Do the supermart quest right away and you're probably good enough on weapons to push the GNR quest, which gives you free SM and BoS gear. From there you're pretty much set.

Evo<^|SiNz|^> · 11-12-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder

Yeah, I started out high int (7) used a couple early intense training to bump it to 9, pushing Lockpick speech and science up above 50 early. Then I started filling out with medicine, repair and sneak.

those three stats are the most useful IMO. speech gives you all kinds of bonus or skip options, and lockpick/science opens up all kinds of gear for you early. Combat skills really aren't necessary. Do the supermart quest right away and you're probably good enough on weapons to push the GNR quest, which gives you free SM and BoS gear. From there you're pretty much set.

Yeah, speech is huge. I've actually been pouring a lot of spare points into that to get it to around 50 right now (I'm at level 12 now). You can totally skip parts of quests with it, and get better rewards, etc... It's an awesome skill.

I think for the other skills, I am going to wait til the next playthrough, and continue to focus my points on combat skills just to see what it's like to max out on them. I never sneak, so I'm not going to get any of those skills or perks. I'll still miss out on a lot of terminals and locks, but oh well, that's why you make a new character and try again.

Speaking of which, I lament the fact that Bethesda decided to use the old save system from Oblivion, where it just lists saves in chronological order, rather than splitting them up between your characters. There was a tool someone created for Oblivion that would allow you to only activate certain characters' saves so only those would appear in game. Nothing like that exists yet for Fallout, so I'm not going to create a second character til I finish the game with this one so I don't get the saves all confused.

Spyder · 11-12-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evo<^|SiNz|^>

Yso I'm not going to create a second character til I finish the game with this one so I don't get the saves all confused.

Don't know if Pc version is anything like PS3 version, but my saves get labeled character name, level and current morality level, so it's very easy for me to know what save I'm looking at on the fly, especially seeing as both characters are polar opposites.

Evo<^|SiNz|^> · 11-12-2008, 03:08 PM

Yes, it sounds the same. The problem for me is that I tend to save a LOT. I have over 100 unique save files on my game right now, and I'm only 23 hours in. I can probably go back and delete some, but I hate quicksaving and I usually don't overwrite saves in case I need to go back because I messed something up. That makes it extremely hard to sift back through to find your other characters' save games.

Zoopy · 11-12-2008, 04:31 PM

Yes, using the scroll wheel while watching for one word to change is very hard.

Bofa_deez · 11-13-2008, 01:24 PM

Lincolns rifle anybody? It's awesome!!

Smokeyandthebandit · 11-14-2008, 11:40 AM

I maxed out on unarmed combat the second time around.

.....It's ridiculous.

Spyder · 11-14-2008, 01:26 PM

Super seriously ridiculous?