Vanguard - Page 3

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 01-10-2007, 04:19 PM

Gambit, what is it about PotBS that makes you think it will fail?

Outside possible technical failures that is.

Gambit7 · 01-10-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

Gambit, what is it about PotBS that makes you think it will fail?

Outside possible technical failures that is.

I'm not optimistic about the avatar system, as I said earlier. The game wasnt originally supposed to be designed for it and you can tell by the discrepancy graphically between ship combat and walking around town. It's just thrown together. As for the ships themselves, they really took alot away from the original "simulation" aspect of the game and really dumbed it down. I was looking forward to a historical naval combat sim-type mmo. PotBS will not be in this genre.

Once I realized this, they're basically going to lose audience due to the general nature of the game AND they'll lose the "hardcore" crowd due to lack of realism. They'll also lose pvp-ers because combat is basically instanced (even though they said it wasnt.. it is).

Lastly, this game is basically 2 years behind schedule... using an OLD engine. PotBS was only "original" in 2004. When you compare it to other games being released in '07, flying labs just cant compete. The ONLY thing they have going for them is an interesting concept, and like I said before.. it's implemented badly.

Again, if they dont require subscription or it's a free game then it has a chance... otherwise, forget it. Regardless, I'll be playing it because I'm a yachtsman myself and I like the premise behind the game. BUT, I'm prepared for a serious let-down.

Here's an old post of mine from 2003!
http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2226

As you can see.. back THEN times were great. But something happened between then and now to really shift the game.

Gambit7 · 01-10-2007, 05:24 PM

Speaking of which.. the LEAD designer responded to my post.. woot! I are special!

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 01-10-2007, 05:49 PM

That is one reason I think it will be successful. And why they have gone away from the sim aspect.*

The developers are listening to the users. Even at this late stage (it is to be released this July) you still see alot of developer responses.

And for what it is worth there is one little birdy I know that says the avatar stuff is pretty good even by todays standards.

But who knows. Like you I do plan on playing it and hope it is not WoW on water or EVE in the carrabian. We will see.

*Personaly I am glad they decreased the simulation part. As long it isn't just button clickin like others and there is a realtime aspect to it I will be happy.

Gambit7 · 01-10-2007, 06:13 PM

Yah, I must say the devs were super cool for this game. Best I've ever seen save EVE. I got the impression long ago that they were maybe trying to please too many people, including their pubby and that's what caused the delays.

Nemesis · 01-10-2007, 07:15 PM

**checks the title of the thread**

**re-reads the last few posts**

HIJACKED!!

Gambit7 · 01-10-2007, 11:32 PM

hehe... best way to critique a game is to compare it to others, hence the hijacking.

**Tarenth** · 01-12-2007, 09:16 PM

Siulung both hijacked this thread and caused all discussion to bomb. I guess that makes him a forum terrorist.

Moving along back to Vanguard I must say that a release date of 01/30/07 is FAR too soon. The bugs are just horrible and they need to spend a little more time ironing things out before it can go live.

First off the click detection and pathing of some of the mobs and NPCs are just weird. Within a hour of starting up on the Vulp race side (odd how the wolfpeople are called Vulpes instead of Lupes) I had mobs run up and down through the ceiling and ground with me. It is not fun to spend 10 minutes in constant combat because the mob you are 'fighting' is standing on the ceiling 10 yards over your head or under the ground. Trying to select and talk to NPCs in town is hit or miss if you're standing too close. I spent far to much time walking away and reapproaching or playing 'jiggle the camera' to try and find the sweet spot for talking. Also some mobs have odd selection boxes which means you can't select them to fight back even if they're busying chewing on your face. Back to the 'jiggle the camera' and try to retreat and reapproach tactic made all the more difficult because said mob is running after you.

Quests are definately buggy and unforgiving. I tried my hand at crafting and the quest system to get tools and materials screwed me over twice. First when I did the outfitting quest for utilities where the quest rewards of said utilities failed to be given and again with my first intro work order where the recipe wasn't given. Nevermind the fact that I was interested in hearing more about the different crafting jobs. The moment I asked about outfitting and seeing what it could do I was stuck with the profession without any way to undo it.

Then there are the really really REALLY stupid things. You kill a beast mob and you have the option of looting then skinning it. Of course if you can't skin it because of lack of tools or skill then you get stuck permanently in the 'loot before skining' state preventing you from doing any looting off any mobs until you skin the original mob you're stuck at. Then again you can't skin it until you get the tools or skill to skin it and you can't get those because you can no longer loot or skin until you finish skinning. Viscious circles are evil. -.-

The community on my server also seemed to be a bit on the dim side as well. I heard "OMG u must b frm wOw!" as a response to questions about certain things. Then there was the person asking directions without knowing his point of origin. -.-

"Can someone give me directions to <newbie town name>?"
"Where are you now?"
"I don't know! If I did I wouldn't be asking directions!"
"Kinda hard to tell you where to go if I don't know where you are now..."
"OMG! Just give me directions already!"
<repeat statement every minute>

The small dialogue boxes are annoying when reading quest and lore text, but easy to ignore if you're carful with the scrolling.

**Bisclaveret** · 01-14-2007, 03:01 AM

On the "really stupid" bugs thing, is the fact that Shamans are constantly broken. The latest patch revamp of the race... well. i think putting the /bug forum's post is needed here. TBH some of these were fixed the next day, but still, it's shocking. It's a thread posting at the top constantly edited as new things come in , because /bug screwed up on some people and theyt couldn't post bugs

*Shaman Class Lead Edit*
There is a known issue regarding players receiving old totemic abilities, and hence not being able to use them due to old endurance costs. This will be fixed ASAP, but when that happens your existing Totemic Abilities will be wiped. The related issue of Spirit Walk not working at all should also be fixed ASAP.

Pardon the intrustion Nharvi, thanks.

A few bugs that we found so far:

1. When you cast spiritwalk to gain (in my case) Rakurr abilities, I end up with lesser version of spells I already have, and the older version of them. Just thought I'd do a headsup. Examples of these are Lethargy I and Remedy III when I have the later upgrades (version II and IV). This also goes for Tuurgin

2. Boons of Bosrid I causes you to stand up while medding each time you regen, which is every tick. It's somewhat annoying, and a casting sound effect plays each time as well as spell effects displaying.

3. A few spells still don't show proper info in the spell description, do you guys want us to /bug each one to see which ones they are? I'm happy to do so if it helps.

4. Skin of Rakurr seems broken, none of version I or II works atm, no icon, no benefit from the spell and no graphics (see post #2 for more info)

5. A few spells still have endurance costs way over 100. The ones I can remember off my head are: Maiming Strike II, Bite of the Feral II, Cunning I, INtensity I, Rakurr's Grace I.

6. I have the same issues, however, Skin of Rakurr worked fine for me as of 1AM EST this morning. And add Hunter's Shroud to abilities that cost over 100 endurance (153 END), rendering it impossible to use as we are all capped at 100 endurance.

7. Not sure if this is a shaman only bug, but sprinting dont require endurance for me. Rather nice to always have spring on, but should be fixed though

8. At lvl 18 I have
Greater Spirit of Rakuur
Spirit of Rakuur
Spirit of Rakuur I

One of the Spirit of Rakuur dont belong.

9. Hoarfrost, and Fleshrot II dont stack, i am not sure if they are supposed to stack but please confirm if it is intended for those two to not stack. (also hoarfrost and flesh rot seem to stack kind of. If you cast hoarfrost first, then flesh rot hoarfrost will freeze all it's damage till flesh rot wears off then continue normally from where it was before flesh rot was cast.)

10. bite of nag-suul 1's DoT is actually a HoT.. heals the mobs instead of damaging them.

11. there is no debuff on hammer of krigus as is listed

12. pet heal is insta cast, only global cooldown and costs nothing

13. I got spirit walk from the trainer. Casting it does nothing and I have none of the patrol spells/abilities back.

14. I turned 15 after the revamp and went to the trainer to get my totem. I could not get spirit walk, quest, or any indication that I could recieve my totem at this time. Just a heads up

15. Seems healing focus is bugged, instead of gaining healing power, we lose it atm. (see post # 10, 11 and 13 under this topic)

16. Hammer of krigus IV buged my range friend in duel and made his attribute permanently 30 str zero con (see post #10 & 18)

17. None of the Tuurgin specific abilites have been updated to the new end. Such as Mauling Swipe, Deafening Roar, & the buff Tuurgin's Vigor.

18. Run buff stacks with Mount/Bard Song (intended or a bug?)

19. Also Im not sure if its indended or not but you can use life ward to remove 50 of the 80 damage from ritual of sacrifice, so you pretty much almost have a free mana regen spell

20. After todays patch (1/11/07) I STILL can not use my totemic abilities/spells/buffs.
Following is a list of spells/abilities that do not work. Doesnt include the ones that need a crit to chain.

Mauling swipe 2
Sundering Claw 1
Tuurgin's Bite 1
Tuurgin's Vigor 1
Rage of Tuurgin 1

21. Pet Damage still very low

22. chain casting ritual of sacrifice also seems to keep your entire group in combat

23. Here is another I discovered tonight. I cast Oracle's Sight 2 on my rl husband by mistake, then cast OS 3 thinking it would over ride, instead he got the energy benefits of both (not sure about the spell haste). Then to test I cast OS 1 and he got the eng. boost from that as well, but the icon for OS 2 went away (not the energy boost from it). So he clicked off OS 1 and didnt loose the energy boost. Then he clicked off OS 3 and still did not take any energy loss. On top of that, the icon for OS 2 was hidden under the OS 3 icon. So he clicked off the OS 2 icon and finally lost the energy boost from all three versions of the buff.

24. Infusion 3's description is reading that it gives 290 hitpoints, but it is actually giving 209 hitpoints (i think that this bug is a simple typo where someone accidently inverted the 9 and 0 somewhere).

25. When I retrained my abilites tonight (had to rebuy them all when I logged in today even though I bought them yesterday) I realized that Rememdy 1 seems to be giving the correct heal ammount (including whatever alterations my vitality and or heal focus gives it) but none of the other heals are doing this. (more info about #23-25 on this list is found in this post

phaze · 01-17-2007, 09:03 PM

So bottom line guys, how many people here are going to buy it at the end of the Month?

If we have enough i would like to see a TG Guild ASAP.

Turbinator · 01-18-2007, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phaze

So bottom line guys, how many people here are going to buy it at the end of the Month?

If we have enough i would like to see a TG Guild ASAP.

Not me for one reason. My current pc will not run it. I've seen videos people run the game at 20 fps on geforce 6800.

I will give this game a try at the end of this year perhaps when I get my new pc. Unless of course Age of Conan and Pirate of the Burning Sea will be tooo good

**Bisclaveret** · 01-18-2007, 08:24 PM

Not only that but.. looking at the housing forums. If we ever wanted a guild hall or somesuch, we'd have to work are freaking asses off. I don't know what kind of guilds they're trying to attract, but..

A plot for a guild house is 1k platinum (a very hefty sum) plus 100 platinum upkeep a week!. And thats just the plot of land, that doesn't include the cost of building materials, paying crafters to refine the materials, etc. which can cost 3-5 times the cost of the plot. Plus the heavy weekly upkeep.. jesus.

phaze · 01-19-2007, 07:45 AM

Thats nuts. Ill look into this more today.

Zid · 01-19-2007, 07:54 PM

haha and i thought i was a bigshot with my 10 silver.

Gambit7 · 01-19-2007, 08:34 PM

Reminds me of SWG. The guild I formed ended up being the best on our server with a HUGE city. I didnt play much though and it was run by others but I think it got too big for its britches and ended up crumbling to the ground. Many of the citizens ended up moving the more "prime" real estate also; on the beach. Then of course SOE killed the game.

The only way it was even built was by taking a lot of money from guildmembers to build it and then taxing the hell out of them. It was kind of cool actually. Of course, the city gained revenue from outsiders as well. Since we had enough members it wasnt really that hard to pull off, but the organizational aspect might as well have been a REAL city - which is what Vanguard is trying to do.

Like I said, a full-on fantasy simulator. It's not meant for the faint of heart or the casual gamer. To build and run one is basically another part-time job. IMO it's better this way or else the game would get watered down and prime land would be hard to come by. The emphasis is on large communities, not small pockets of players who want to run solo.

Part of the reason Vanguard is so desolate looking is that they expect players to fill in the gaps. This is fine and dandy as long as the game doesnt start lookin like a shanty-town

I will close with this... in this type of game half-hearted guild efforts mean guild mergers down the road into bigger more capable entities. If TG plans on just gettin together in Vanguard to play around a bit, look for high player turnover and perhaps eventual takeover by a bigger/better guild or the guild collapsing. It's the nature of the beast. If someone REALLY wants to take the TG-Vanguard plunge and be SERIOUS, more power to you.... but, dont half-ass it