Gonna have to change my driving habits...

**CingularDuality** · 09-02-2004, 11:27 PM

http://apnews.excite.com/article/200...D84RSNV00.html

Quote:

For two months, Jacob Sevlie's insurance company tagged along whenever he slid behind the wheel of his Honda Accord.

An electronic monitor the size of a matchbook closely tracked Sevlie's driving time and behavior. If he had a heavy foot or was a sudden braker, the auto data recorder would betray him.

Disconnected from the car and hooked to a PC, the device relayed Sevlie's digital driving diary to his auto insurer, Progressive Corp. (PGR), with the click of a mouse during a pilot program earlier this year.

Although privacy advocates say the gadget smacks of Big Brother, Sevlie signed up and sent monthly data in hopes of saving money on his insurance bill. In return, he got a $25 stipend and the promise of a 15 percent rate cut when the program launches.

Mayfield Village, Ohio-based Progressive is now promising discounts of up to 25 percent as it expands the so-called TripSense pilot program to 5,000 Minnesota customers. Sevlie, of Bloomington, Minn., is among them.

Progressive says it will use the data only for potential discounts and not to penalize customers whose devices reveal risky driving habits.

The monitoring has the potential to cascade through the insurance industry, said Charles Samuelson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Minnesota.

"What happens is Progressive does this and gets a little bit of market share growth because they've lowered prices. Then it gets copied by other insurance companies," he said. "Pretty soon you don't have any choice.

"You have to surrender all that data to insurance companies or they won't insure you," he said.

**Tempus** · 09-02-2004, 11:43 PM

Yep. Welcome to the future. These kind of things are why I will eventually move to a 3rd world country, where the government/big-business (they are the same now) will not have the resources to pull this kind of crap.

**USN_Squid** · 09-03-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempus

Yep. Welcome to the future. These kind of things are why I will eventually move to a 3rd world country, where the government/big-business (they are the same now) will not have the resources to pull this kind of crap.

Thanks Tempus! I haven't laughed that hard in a long time....

**leejo** · 09-03-2004, 01:20 PM

Yuck. Surely there'd be a market for an insurance company who chose not to give its customers tracking suppositories.

**Wolfie** · 09-03-2004, 01:27 PM

I don't see what the fuss is all about. The driver volunteers to have this device record data, the insurance company doesn't force it. The driver volunteers to send this data to the insurance company, the company doesn't take this data from the driver.

I will wait until this becomes an issue, rather than making a mountain out of a molehill.

**CingularDuality** · 09-03-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

I don't see what the fuss is all about. The driver volunteers to have this device record data, the insurance company doesn't force it. The driver volunteers to send this data to the insurance company, the company doesn't take this data from the driver.

I will wait until this becomes an issue, rather than making a mountain out of a molehill.

Yeah, we'll see... But I think this is too good for insurance companies to pass up.

**TheFeniX** · 09-03-2004, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Yeah, we'll see... But I think this is too good for insurance companies to pass up.

OK, worst case scenario: this does well and most of the large companies make it mandatory. There are still numerous "budget" insurance companies that would do good business because some people don't want their driving monitored. If insurance companies started treating their customers like criminals: they won't have many customers.

I'd be concerned if they tried to push a law through the state level, but not this.

**CingularDuality** · 09-03-2004, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

OK, worst case scenario: this does well and most of the large companies make it mandatory. There are still numerous "budget" insurance companies that would do good business because some people don't want their driving monitored. If insurance companies started treating their customers like criminals: they won't have many customers.

I'd be concerned if they tried to push a law through the state level, but not this.

"Budget" insurance companies? Like Progressive (The budget insurance company that is initiating this) you mean? Or are you talking about the little companies that don't actually pay any claims?

**TheFeniX** · 09-03-2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

"Budget" insurance companies? Like Progressive (The budget insurance company that is initiating this) you mean?

"Budget" is a subjective term. Basically, companies other than the mainstream ones (State Farm, Farmer's, etc).

Quote:

Or are you talking about the little companies that don't actually pay any claims?

If you're looking for liability, then they don't need to pay your claims.

**CingularDuality** · 09-03-2004, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

If you're looking for liability, then they don't need to pay your claims.

Unless, of course, you're the one rear ended by a guy carrying "budget" insurance...

**TheFeniX** · 09-03-2004, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Unless, of course, you're the one rear ended by a guy carrying "budget" insurance...

That's what the BBB and subsequent fraud investigations are for.

**leejo** · 09-03-2004, 08:51 PM

And while you wait years for something productive to happen, you eat the cost of repairs. Right?

**TheFeniX** · 09-03-2004, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

And while you wait years for something productive to happen, you eat the cost of repairs. Right?

Can you cite any credible sources showing numbers behind filed claims that were left unanswered by non-"big name" insurance companies? Living in Rosenberg, I've had quite a few (3 I can recall off-hand) friends who have been involved in wrecks with people who use the local insurance companies (whose names I can't even remember) and they've never voiced any problems about the claims being filled in a timely manner.

If you've got numbers that show a large gap between them and larger insurance providers, I'd love to see them.

From my experience, even reputable insurance companies take their sweet time filling claims. Granted, State Farm has been great to me. If you want the benefits of a good insurance company, then you should abide by the statutes they put into place. You act like they're going to put a tracking beacon in your car and count how many times you run a red light.

Some health insurance companies require annual or bi-annual health check-ups for coverage to ensure that you are keeping yourself in good health. If it looks bad they will jack your rate up. Mine doesn't do that. Does that mean they won't pay for my claims (someone sure is paying for my dental/medical check-ups)?

I don't see anyone complaining that my health insurance is higher because I smoke (which I could lie about), but someone attributing your driving performance to insurance rate (which isn't even the issue, only a supposed slippery-slope years from now) gets the full "Big Brother" treatment?

**leejo** · 09-03-2004, 10:32 PM

Golly I was just talking about waiting for the BBB and the anti-fraud folks to do their thing. I have no stats so chill.

However, make no mistake, if some jackass hits you and isn't insured by a credible company (or any at all!) then you're just gonna have to shell out $$ unless you've paid for that insurance too.

**CingularDuality** · 09-04-2004, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFeniX

That's what the BBB and subsequent fraud investigations are for.

Nope. Neither one will do anything to help you. A lawsuit is your only recourse. The BBB will put a little check box next to the "complaints" column for that company, but that's all they do. The exist for that and only that. And since refusing to pay out on a fraudulant insurance claim (or any other excuse that the company comes up with...) is a civil matter and not a criminal one, no fraud investigation is going to be started on a podunk company that only deals in claims that are a few thousand dollars here and a few there.

Lawyers, on the other hand, are bloodthirsty enough to go after these guys. But who wants to get involved in a long, drawn out lawsuit that could end up costing you more than your claim was worth in the first place?

I got burned by two local insurance companies when I was 18. Both of them were insuring "the other guy". Allstate's lawyers pursued one of them in court for over 4 years. The other one Allstate gave up on and settled for me. I've always used either Allstate or AAA until a few years ago.

09-02-2004, 11:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Tempus Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Age: 38 Posts: 8,252	Re: Gonna have to change my driving habits... Yep. Welcome to the future. These kind of things are why I will eventually move to a 3rd world country, where the government/big-business (they are the same now) will not have the resources to pull this kind of crap.

09-03-2004, 01:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Gonna have to change my driving habits... Yuck. Surely there'd be a market for an insurance company who chose not to give its customers tracking suppositories.

09-03-2004, 01:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
Wolfie Join Date: May 2003 Location: Michigan Age: 33 Posts: 1,405	Re: Gonna have to change my driving habits... I don't see what the fuss is all about. The driver volunteers to have this device record data, the insurance company doesn't force it. The driver volunteers to send this data to the insurance company, the company doesn't take this data from the driver. I will wait until this becomes an issue, rather than making a mountain out of a molehill.

09-03-2004, 08:51 PM	#12 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Gonna have to change my driving habits... And while you wait years for something productive to happen, you eat the cost of repairs. Right?

09-03-2004, 10:32 PM	#14 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Gonna have to change my driving habits... Golly I was just talking about waiting for the BBB and the anti-fraud folks to do their thing. I have no stats so chill. However, make no mistake, if some jackass hits you and isn't insured by a credible company (or any at all!) then you're just gonna have to shell out $$ unless you've paid for that insurance too.

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