.tritone.

Death is boring. In all honesty it should be the last thing one would spend their time worrying about.

It's pretty much the only thing that doesn't really affect you.

I promise if you squint really hard and maybe let out a little squeaker of a fart that'll make sense to you.

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ednos

I guess scientists operate on different definitions of evidence than mathematicians.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Kerostasis

Thats probably true, given that mathematicians have abstracted their field to the point that observations have become meaningless, and only theory matters. Most other fields of science still rely heavily on observations.

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sc1ence

That has been true since Hilbert's program went belly up.

Science borrows the tools from mathematics, but numbers can do strange things that reality can not.

no math can be both complete and consistent. this has HUGE implications for how we use math in science.

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BeSiege82

think physics. if many of the math advancements in the 20th century were false, what would happen to physics- the study of motion.

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lTG-Irrl BeSiege82
A platoon leader in his own right...

"Courage grows strong at the wound."
"Virescit Vulnere Virtus."

"{My grump-o-meter starts to make a high-pitched whine when I point it at your post, though.}" -- Axis

mentholated

Actually, think quantum physics. At that level, reality does stranger things than numbers do. Incredibly small things can actually be in more than one position at once.

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It's said the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is with the same good intentions that we blindly place our trust in those with power, the architects of our future and all to often, the manipulators of our ultimate fate.

El_Gringo_Grande

Well.

For the living it doesn't matter if God exists or does not exist. You either believe or you don't*. This belief is independent of Gods existence.

If the belief makes you feel better about life in general then you are being a hedonist. If it doesn't then I guess you are being a good religious person. (And vice verse)

And to Bodofooko. You are absolutely correct. I think. It seems to me that human awareness/conscience is not able to deal with the time dimension. It knows about this dimension but can't come to grips with it. Delaying death for another 115 seconds or 115 days or 115 years or whatever. It knows that at some point it will no longer be able to acquire input. And it doesn't know how to deal with that.

Isn't that we are talking about? Receiving and processing input? That is all death is, lack of input.


*I want to believe. I have since I was a wee lad. Went to church and all that but I always end up laughing at the absurdity of it while being sad that it is so absurd.

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Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
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I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

xanathemax

This is a view that considers religious belief very benign, which is pretty untrue - religious beliefs in fact have very real consequences for society and other people, and there are very real consequences to the statement that "2000 years ago a dead jew turned into a ghost and saved humanity."

Embiggener

It would be an incredible coincidence that we were wrong on the math, yet still able to describe every process in the universe with our apparently incorrect math.

in the cartoon world, of course we would all float up in the air because once we found out we did the math wrong on gravity, gravity doesnt exist.

BeSiege82

just saying that we need to look at the study of kinematics before dynamics. This brought so many problems in the early years of physics- if you remember Galileo had to retract [under penalty of death] certain findings.

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lTG-Irrl BeSiege82
A platoon leader in his own right...

"Courage grows strong at the wound."
"Virescit Vulnere Virtus."

"{My grump-o-meter starts to make a high-pitched whine when I point it at your post, though.}" -- Axis

El_Gringo_Grande

Depends. Would humanity have done basically the same thing without religion? Or is religion just the spackel that fills the low spots of human nature? Has religion been used as an excuse to do what was going to be done anyways?

__________________
Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

ednos

No.

Yes.

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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~ Bertrand Russell
I have a tendency to key out three or four things and then let them battle for supremacy while I key, so there's a lot of backspacing as potential statements are slaughtered and eaten by the victors. ~ Magna Centipede

Requital

Science is a way to describe and quantify reallity. As the scientific community becomes more aware of each piece of reallity it must change, adapt and describe that reallity in a more concise and understanable way with regards to the whole. Reallity is that which we act on and believe is being understood. Someone could tell you that they are really a butter fly dreaming they are a man (Kant, I believe mentioned this once), but unless they act like a butterfly dreaming they are a man it is irrelevant.

Similarly people act according to their beliefs. I personally believe God does exist and they He has described himself to us in a very real and personal way. Other people do not believe that and act accordingly.

There is one thing everyone should be glad of and that is God exists and people believe it. If, they didn't there is no logical reason why you would act loving, and compassionate to anyone. I would be the only imporant creature on this Earth and My reason for being would simply be to please Me. If pleasing Me was killing babies, then it's not wrong because there are No moral consequences. What does it matter if I kill or rape or steal? I am injuring someone else? So, I will eventually die. The only reason I might decide to not do those things is that I can do what I want better in another way.

If there is no Heaven, then it doesn't really matter. But, IF there is a Hell it really does.

Hambergler

If science is the study of nature, then religion is the study of the cognitive and emotional experience. I would call it a discipline in happiness. First person introspection has been dismissed by western religions and psychology many years ago. The popular form is third person introspection by so called "experts" such as a clergy, god or psychologists. The art of first person introspection and the essence of all religion is been all but lost in external interpretation. I say cut out the middleman, investigate all religions, take what you want and leave the rest. There are many benefits.

For example scientists have to live constantly with conflicting models of reality. Newtonian vs Relativity/Quantum physics for example. The interpretative processes of the mind which include emotions and cognitive experience heavily weigh on interpretation in the newer sciences. Understanding and being able to identify ones own processes will lead to clearer interpretation.

People spend half their day with their emotions/spirit what ever you want to call it. And the other half with their intellect. Usually at the same time. Only developing one side will create an imbalance. One side will dominate the other. And will ultimately contribute to unhappiness. It is a shame that many people are repelled at the slightest hint of this topic because of bad childhood experiences. There is a wide range and thousands of years of knowledge available to develop this discipline.

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Grunt 70

ha ha ...you must spread some rep around..yada yada yada

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|TG-22nd|Grunt



"When force is necessary, it must be applied boldly, decisively, and completely. But one must know the limitations of force; one must know when to blend force with maneuver" - Leon Trotsky