mentholated

You know, I hate to double post but after I read fenix's post, I realized something. The more the non-lethal alternatives are abused, the more citizens are going to resort to lethal methods of self defense against them. Changing the tools won't solve anything, changing the people will.

Buckets

I hate to bring up old wounds but the fact that this guy is suspended with pay indicates a huge problem with law enforcement in our country. As a teacher, if I were to put a kid in a headlock, throw him to the ground and threaten his life, you'd better believe that I wouldn't be suspended with pay. Any other profession and this low-life would be sitting in jail and his kids would be in foster care. I'm pretty sure that the VAST majority of cops would never do anything like this. I'm also pretty sure that the majority of police officers would stick up or cover up for this guy to protect his job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GgWrV8TcUc

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The artist formerly known as "pecker"

CingularDuality

While I'll agree that the cop lost his temper and acted unprofessionally, I'll also say that that is probably exactly what that kid needed. I know, because I was a punk kid once, too! Unfortunately, kids these days just aren't getting enough ass whoopings...

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

sordavie

Or, it could have exactly the opposite effect--especially when he goes back later to watch the video captured interaction after the fear is gone.

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Iamthefallen

I must have missed the article with details of his criminal record, what exactly is it that makes you sure that he's a punk kid?

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Buckets

While the kid may have been a punk (and I certainly was one when I was his age), it was completely out of line for the officer to behave in the manner that he did. Not only was it counter-productive (that kid and his friends will probably never trust cops), its wrong for an adult to manhandle a pre-pubescent child (or anyone for that matter) like that simply because they gave you a little attitude. If that officer was a member of any other profession, he would be in jail facing charges right now. Instead, he is on PAID administrative leave. It should be no mystery to anyone why some people have a really hard time trusting the police.

I experienced a similar but much less extreme (IE no violence) incident with the police when I was 16 and the lasting result is that I am a law-abiding, tax-paying, college educated adult who has an irrational (I hope) fear of police officers.

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Switch

I can't think of a single context in which the offers actions could have been deemed appropriate. He didn't appear to be making an arrest, and while he could legally detain the skate boarder in order to issue a summons, that doesn't give him any right to verbally abuse or physically assault (that is what he did, don't sugar coat it because its a cop) the minor.

Its one thing for an officer to raise his voice when a situation demands it -- its entirely another go take offense to 'dude' and then scream at a kid, criticize his parents, and throw him to the ground after fumbling a headlock.

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Better known as:
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marstein

A professionally acting cop is far more intimidating than that pseudo wrestler. Respect for the law, manners, etc is important and the kid didn't have it, but the role of the police has to be above that. I'd be afraid that one will tackle me when I jaywalk.

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mentholated

Since when has the law ever been about respect?

The law is simply the result of crime. Or is it? Does the law actually create the crime by existing in its own right?

If crime and law are akin to cause and effect, the results are mediated by our own intentions. We ultimately decide who suffers by our own action or inaction. The logical conclusion is that we cannot overly act out in defiance of corruption and anti-humanism, which would be an all out rebellion against the federal government and federal "law" enforcement agencies that continue to break constitutional law on a daily basis. But we must act, now in a peaceful manner, before the people as a whole realize that they have been lulled by the false sense of security that now exists into trusting their own government (the beast, if you're a judeo-christian) with their thoughts, their actions, and their own existence as conscious beings. Inaction ultimately results in a violent culmination of two forces, rapidly growing in intensity, and built within repelling constructs of thought. There is simply a balance that will occur, in one way or another. I prefer to call it macro-karma.

CingularDuality

Because it takes one to know one, and I was one.

See, I disagree here. Twenty years ago, if I told a cop to F off, I would've gotten a whooping. Now, on this video, you've got a kid not only verbally assaulting a cop, but bowing up to him as well. This overt lack of respect for the law used to be found only in hardened criminals and now we're seeing it in everywhere.

This is a bigger issue than just a cop roughing up a kid. This is about a lack of respect for societal norms.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Ferris Bueller

I agree with CD. The kid was out of line. He didnt necessarily deserve the headlock and the shove, but the verbal lashing, absolutely.

Now, if you guys want an example of where law enforcement goes bad, here is a very recent example:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/13/...ing/index.html

Having gone to high school and having parents in Tampa, I've dealt with the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office lots of times and they were always very professional (for the record, I've never been arrested nor been in any serious trouble with the law. mostly my three speeding tickets, talking to off duty officers working at bars for extra cash and having friends on the force). This kind of behavior in law enforcement officers is aberrant, not the norm. Unfortunately, when something like this happens, it casts a stigma on all the personnel of the department with the public because of people gossiping and blowing things out of proportion. It's very sad that a few bad apples are capable of tainting the reputation of a department all because of the public and their inability to stick to facts.

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Atomic Dog

The problem I see in your arguement, Cing, is that you are placing the problem of disrespect for the Law solely on the shoulders of the civilian. The problem is much more complicated than that. The disrespect comes from the general mistrust (among other things, I'm sure) that is growing and growing in today's society. Roughing up a kid solves nothing really. There's a whole lot of roughing up that needs to go down on both sides of the arguement before anything really changes. This cop was just reacting on anger no matter how it's spun...and that only serves to widen the gap.

But seriously...did you see his car? His uniform? I'd be a little pissed too. xD

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CingularDuality

Agreed. This video is not a good example of what police should be doing. While I think lots of kids out there need their butts whooped, losing your temper and lashing out is not the appropriate response.
Good point.

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Switch

I didn't see the kid 'verbally assaulting' the cop... calling him dude is not verbal assault. The officer, on the other hand, was shouting at him and insulting his parents.

Moreover, while you could argue the kid lacked respect for the police officer --- the police officer was actually breaking the law by assaulting the minor -- so don't criticize a teenager for disrespecting police when their police interactions involve an ******* who broke the law himself!

As I said before, I can't see a single context in which the officers actions could be deemed appropriate -- and now the 'pro police' people are trying to blame the kid. Regardless of what the kid may or may not have done, there was no reason for the officer to behave that way.

On top of that, civilians have no legal requirement to show respect to anyone -- our only legal mandate is that we do not break the law. If you break the law, you can be punished. If you call a cop dude, there's nothing to be done (legally).

He didn't deserve a head lock? You say that like if he had deserved it the cop could chose to administer it. The action was completely unlawful. The officer wasn't arresting him and the child posed no physical threat to require restraints or physical interaction. As far as verbal lashings I didn't hear the cop waxing on about the dangers of skate boarding or destruction of property, he kept yelling about 'respect me respect me respect me' A total douche who doesn't understand how respect works.

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Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Hambergler

If a grown man did that to my kid I would beat his ass, cop or not.

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