TheFeniX

We're back to the attitude issue though. With some cops, they need an excuse to treat you with respect, not the other way around. Just because the cop is ready for anything doesn't mean he has to purvey that kind of mentality to the person.

Just because the guy walking up behind me might be trying to rob me, doesn't give me the excuse to verbally berate him. I resolve situations I feel uncomfortable in by saying things like "Hello" or "Can I help you." The guy never even knows I have the ability to stop him if I want to.

Some of them do a piss-poor job at this. They come off more as bullies than professional law-enforcers. Something I would expect from private security. Granted, most of what I've noticed stems from county cops, not highway patrolmen or city cops. Any issue I've ever had from a police offcer has been from a county cop. And after speaking with a few of them off duty, I tend to believe they have nothing better to do with their time.

If anything, my CHL would only server to put them more at ease considering my "clean-cut white-boy" look. In fact, I got pulled over by a cop a few years ago in my "race-ready (or whatever) Dodge. He looked absolutely pissed as he walked up to the driver's door. When he got to my window, it was like he got slapped in the face. He then said "Hey man, the speed limit doesn't get up to 55 until a 100 yards or so up the road, so just slow it down a bit" and ignored my driver's license and insurance I tried to hand him.

Something made him change his mind completely about how he was going to handle the situation. I can only make a guess as he immediately went back to standing with his cop buddies on the side of the road. Now, I don't know who or what the officer thought he might find behind the wheel of that truck, but why would me being dressed different or looking different effect his judgment call on that?

For the record: a moving violation means diddly squat to me. I broke the law and now I'm paying for it. I don't think less or more of the cop for not citing me or even giving me a warning. 2 hours of defensive driving online and it's over. Big whoop.

When it comes to my personal life, I make crack judgments about people all the time and treat them accordingly without proper info. I really don't care either way. But when I'm on the clock, that just doesn't fly. I understand that some people don't have that kind of ethic (be it good or bad), but it will color my perception.

Now, I will grant that officers do have an excuse for acting the way they do. But that's really not good enough for me. Sure, I might have had an excuse to argue with a customer that was throwing a temper tantrum at me when I wouldn't install illegal software for her, but it would have affected both my and her perception of my professionalism. Instead, I stuck to my guns (no pun intended) and informed her again that I would need proof of purchase to install the software. This all happened while she was literally throwing boxes around the office "looking" for the software (that I knew she didn't own at this point).

The officers I can respect the most are the ones that will take the verbal beating of their life and just brush it off and continue to do their job. It doesn't make them wimps or bad cops. These types of cops are most likely just as able as any officer to react quickly and efficiently to a situation that turns hostile. If anything, I would think they're more able as they have the ability to remove the emotion from their mind-set.

Anyways, my point is: just because you're ready to body slam a 6'4" muscle man who might get violent or taser a soccer mom when she tries to mace you doesn't mean they should ever even know that during the course of the conversation you had thought of 6 different ways to take them down with as little harm to yourself and them in the process.

I don't need to assert the fact that I can handle myself in a hostile situation and neither should someone with a badge. It's unprofessional and certain cops do it on a daily basis.

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Tarenth

I hate COPs with a passion. They do nothing and an empty uniform with a badge and a gun would probably serve better.

That being said you probably noticed the odd capitalization when I said 'COPs'.

COP actually stands for Community Orientated Police in many cases.

I once had a CJ Professor chew someone out in class for refering to a police officer as a COP. As a 40 year veteren of the police force with a PhD in CJ he carefully explained that no police officer (I perfer using LEO for Law Enforcement Officer since it was easier to scribble into notes) with any self respect would refer to themselves as a COP. The difference between an LEO and a COP was in the type of duties they were assigned and training they recieved.

Originally when the federal government was all hyped up on Community Involvement they offered additional funding to Police Departments that worked with the Community. In standard legalize the captains in charge of several departments hired COPs (see meaning above) in order to qualify for the federal funding by using the loophole of slapping a label on inferiorly trained officers and delegating them to other tasks. If a representative of the PD is sent to a community action meeting or as a PR gimmik to schools or public forums then odds are it is a COP. Traffic stops and ticketing was delegated to COPs since speeding and DUI are common concerns of the community. Basically any high profile job of little importance was delegated to COPs. More departments started using this practice of hiring more COPs than LEOs for additional funding until its now common for the uninformed to start refering to themselves as COPs as well.

Now if we did away with the COP loophole and the degregation in quality of service from the police due to their saturation in the field then we might have less problems. When you start lowering standards then the entire field of policing suffers.

Then again I'm youngish (25), I've never been in trouble with the law, and I know quite a few COPs and LEOs. The COPs are easy to tell from the LEOs because they're the ones easily confused when you start talking in a complicated manner concerning their job.

LEOs serve to protect.
COPs serve to look good.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

P8riot

Heh.. I remember when I was around 26 or so, I was leaving a friends in Venice and headed home to Sarasota at around 11pm or so on a weeknight. I got pulled over near the Venice connector for significant speeding (like 15+ over or something) in a 35 zone where the limit suddenly drops for no reason.

So the young officer - I'd say less than 5 years in service, took my usual paperwork back to his car and sat for a good 45+ minutes before returning. Another unit arrives - turns out he requested a K-9 unit because he thought he smelled mary-jane, and he wanted the dog to hit to get 'probable-cause' to justify a search. Pfft - I think he's crazy, I haven't done any, don't have any.. so, whatever. By now more back-up has arrived, a sargeant that watches me.. who also informs me that it's probably not necessary to cuff me during the search even though it is policy to do so. Anyway, the K-9 circles my truck, once, twice, three times, four times and then I hear the officer tapping my truck on the far side and goading the dog which then the dog scratches at the door. So now the kid has probable cause to search my car. OK whatever.

So this kid searches my truck for 90 minutes and comes up empty. Does he admit it and move on.. NO.. he informs the sargeant he wants to take it in for a full search.. this is THREE hours since the stop - by the 2nd hour both the Sargeant and I were sitting on the hood of the patrol car, reclined with our backs on the windshield and he was telling some rather interesting stories from his Navy career.

The sargeant follows the kid over to his car carrying on a 'conversation' with him that probably amounted to telling the young officer to 'pound-sand'. The young officer went into his car and the sargeant returned with my paperwork, no citation for anything, and told me to be safe on my way home.

Anyway.. I pretty much realized that doesn't answer any of your questions, Magnum. I guess it's just a story about how irritating it can be to be held hostage like that - imagine if I were short-fused.. heck, even 'normal'-fused - it'd have probably been real easy after being held for 90 minutes to let something slip verbally that could have set the kid off and gotten me a trip to the pokey. I was fine with a speeding ticket - I did do that.

Of the numerous other run-ins I've experienced, the officers I have met with were professional law enforcement - regardless of age or experience. I'll even say that recently (unfortunatly, I've had some run in's based on a small string of poor decisions on my part) I've had experience with a State Trooper that was a perfect gentleman, that was an older, experienced sargeant, and a young first-year BPD rookie that was very, very professional and courteous.

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1. How old are you? 23

2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent?
Yes I had an ancient seat belt ticket rotting under my drivers seat. I got pulled over for not signaling and again not wearing my seat belt. I was arrested for an outstanding setabelt ticket warrant lolz. On the drive to the station the officer did not offer to buckle my seat belt (and my hands were cuffed, so if we were in an accident I could have really damaged my precious face) and failed to signal on 2 turns and 1 lane change. I paid attention to these things She was nice on the ride, we chatted. It was pretty funny. When I got to the station the other officers were total *******s for the first 10 or so minutes. They assumed I must have been caught doing something terrible and their manners were less than professional. I was trying to make my 'call' and when I cracked a joke to my sister about me actually calling for bail, one guy snapped on me and told me that I wasn't to be joking and that he'd end my call.

3. Why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?
I don't dislike cops as a group, A few of my good friends/ex roomates are soon to be police officers (some already are... the guy going to be a state-y is still in the selection process though). I simply recognize that many police officers have a false sense of authority that oversteps their actual privileges. The worst part is that many civilians share this sense of authoritarianism. I will not bend over backwards to defend a police officer who is out of line. Police should be held to a HIGHER standard. If I'm going to have my balls busted over a freaking seat belt (a constitutionally questionable law anway) I damn well expect police to be thrown to the fire when they overstep their boundaries and infringe on my or any other individuals rights.

4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?
Theres nothing to change here. I appreciate police on an individual level. In general I appreciate their service, but I'm not going to shy from criticism of individuals that are off base. I've been pulled over plenty of times and have had alot of very pleasant experiences. I endured a field sobriety test once, went fine, officer send me on my way with a good night. I've also been asked for my ID while walking with a friend (sober) and I flatly refused. I said, 'Am I legally required to provide you with my ID?' The officer said no, and I said good night and walked away. They were not pleased - but at least they were aware of my rights! I commend them for that.

5. What, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?
Be fair and honest. That's all. Maybe more chick cops. I've only seen one hot girl cop... the rest were pretty busted (well the vest makes em look dike-y)

And finally, any questions you have, feel free to ask, if i can I'll answer them, may not be what you want to hear, but I'll try and answer honest and truthfully...

When 'honest cops' don't want to get involved in resolving issues with corrupt police, how can the police expect civilians to respect anyone in a department. You say you know of 3 'bad cops'. What have you done, as an officer of the law and a civil servant to have these officers arrested and brought up on charges?

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

TheFeniX

The whole "boys club" issue when it comes to cops was something I left out of my post mainly because I've never witnesses the effects first hand. A lot of good cops are hamstrung by the attitude. So, even though they are straight as an arrow, turning on a bad cop will have you ostracized at best, black-balled from police work at worst.

It's one of a few reasons I canned my desire to take law enforcement classes at WCJC and consider becoming a cop. I don't deal well at all with incompetence or lack-luster performance. I tend to but heads with people I work with due to this (I won't cut corners unless specifically asked by a customer and I will not sell or perform a service that doesn't benefit a customer). This attitude makes for a good IT person when you can work well alone, but the last thing I need is to piss off guys who could save my ass when it hits the fan.

Of course, there's always the K-9 unit. Dogs generally tend to avoid drama.

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Gillespie

Ah... all of my encounters with law enforcement have been with state highway patrolmen; I've yet to run into a patrolman that wasn't courteous, calm, and professional. In fact...

...About 3 years ago, when I was still in New York stationed at Ft. Drum, I was was pulled over for far, far exceeding the speeding limit. The highway patrolman was fairly incredulous that I hadn't seen him sitting by the side of the road (hey, it was night!) and proceeded to give me a few fairly expensive tickets - none of which were actual speeding tickets. You see, in New York (not sure if this law applies to anywhere else) if you go 30 miles per hour over the posted speed limit, the officer pulling you over impounds your vehicle. Very, very cool of the patrolman to let me go with a few relatively minor (although I still had to pay $140 or somesuch) "failure to obey traffic signals" tickets. All other such encounters - as I've stated before - were the same. Calm, professional, easy-going. Just a business transaction of sorts.

In any case... here's some videos of the good guys. Hopefully it'll help remind us that there ARE good dudes out there upholding the law:

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Magnum50

When I said "bad cops" I meant the dis-curious and un-professional ones... If I saw an LEO committing a crime like loading up VCR's from the back of a store at 3 AM, I would call for a supervisor and ask to arrest him/her myself...

as for overlooking a cop that let his adrenaline get the best of him and maybe got an extra punch in, or a cop that speeds more then he should, or a cop that spends 45 minutes on a lunch break instead of the 30... well read my post, last one on page one, that is why...

sure you won't like the answer, and yes it may be the "wrong" answer... but I promised you the truth.

I will not turn in a cop for a mistake or unprofessional ism, especially after having my butt saved from them... but will not tolerate a "criminal" cop.


and BTW... that second video, with the cop being so nice... more to the story... he was known as a donkey cop and had a number of complaints so the department put a camera in his car to monitor him, he is being over nice as a smart as answer to the video, he is being "sarcastic" with the department.

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Magnum
www.gettacticaldammit.com

Gillespie

Ahhhh... no wonder.

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Pickle

What Cop really means

While commonly believed to be an acronym for Constable On Patrol, the term refers to "one who captures or snatches". This word first appeared in the early 18th century, and can be matched with the word "cap", which has the same meaning and whose etymology can be traced to the Latin word 'capere'. (The word retains this meaning in other contexts: teenagers "cop a feel" on a date, and they have also been known to "cop an attitude".) Variation: Copper. It is also believed that the term Copper was the original, unshortened word, popularly believed to represent the copper badges American officers used to wear at the time of origin, but in fact probably used in Britain to mean "someone who cops" long before this.


P8triot, that whole stop was illegal. Crappy police work at its best to say the least.

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Morganan

37

Never arrested

My dislike stems from the arrogance of police... Breaking the same law's they arrest people for. Nothing cracks me up more then seeing police traveling without sirens on, without the light's lit over 70 obviously just traveling somewhere and not tailing or anything of that nature. (we've all seen this) If I attempted to pull that hypocrite over and cite him, what do you think would happen to me? This is on-duty officers in marked or unmarked cars. Don't you think they should be setting the example instead of using the knowledge that they wont get pulled over to do whatever they want? How about the total lack of references or education required (at least in my state, PA) to become a policeman? In PA, you basically need to have not been arrested for a felony, be able to get past a background check and have a high school education and you are a policeman! Amazingly those are similarly close to the qualifications required to work in any restaurant or department store (which IMO is where most of these moron's belong) yet I am supposed to respect these people?

My afore mentioned feelings are not for every police officer. There are plenty of decent cops who are just out trying to do a difficult job the best they can. Having said that the pieces of crap that abuse their position deserve some time in the penal system with the wonderful inhabitants of the state tied to a bar getting punched in the nutsack until they learn "serve and protect" doesn't mean "abuse and not care".

Respect the laws you took an oath to enforce, don't do 70 mph because you know you wont get a ticket. Don't take advantage of your position to get ahead in life. (I wont elaborate here, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about and I'm not talking about "dirty cops", just "bad cops") Respect is a 2 way street, don't expect it when none is given. Everyone isn't a "perp" so don't treat us that way. Again, I'm not saying you do that, but I'm sure if you looked objectively at some of your brethren's "roadside manner" you would see what I'm talking about. I'm sure it's just a few bad apples ruining the perception of the police as a whole, but aren't the police supposed to protect the public from these bad apples just as much as protect us from criminals? Isn't abuse of the law a crime as well?

There are 2 policeman in my area who have a serious attitude/ego issue. Nothing personally would make me happier then running into either or both of these guys some night in a dark alley when they are off-duty to give them the butt-kicking/attitude adjustment they so sorely deserve. Whenever these 2 jerk's work school event's and I hang around simply because I don't want my kids left alone near these (expletive deleted). How they got and keep their job's is beyond me other then the low requirements the wonderful communistwealth of Pennsylvania set's. I'm not the only one in my area to feel this way about them, but you lodge a formal complaint, and you all the sudden see a "higher police presence" near your home then what is typical. (I live in a residential area, we rarely see a "police presence" other then the occasional speed trap unless they are called in my general neighborhood)

On the flip-side, there is a wonderful policeman in my area who went over and above the call of duty to help my neighbor with an issue he had a few years back. That fine officer best exemplifies all the best qualities that should be inherent in any public servant in this line of work. I'm sure there are a ton more like him, but their organization is sullied by the few bad apples in my area unfortunately.

Hope that's what you were looking for.

sc1ence

cop was due to the copper buttons worn on early police officer uniforms I thought?

At any rate, as a youth, I was arrested about 6 times for various anti social things. I was a dumb kid in a small town with too much anger and no appropriate place to vent it.

I hated the police because they were a symbol for the establishment. And I was not a fan of the establishment. I rebelled against anything that smacked of authority. This was due to a few factors. One was my parents did not instill in me a respect for law and country. The second was I had WAY too much testosterone running through me and was looking for a fight at every turn. I simply lacked any kind of coping mechanism for what puberty threw at me. My folks are good people, but they were children of the 60s and to a large extent, tended to be anti government. They just sort of expected me to be all mellow and peaceful. Their hearts were in the right place - but I was on a mission to raise hell.

So from 12-18 years old, I raised hell and fought the law as much as I could. I never really did anything too harmful, but I would do dumb stuff like steal cars, break windows, slash tires etc.

I came to my senses eventually and got my crap together. I now routinely buy the coffee for any cop I see in line at the coffee shop (same goes for military and firefighters). It is a thankless job with enormous psychological pressure. There are bad apples in any line of work. To judge all police officers by the actions of a few is just a prejudiced as judging anyone by the actions of a few.

As a psychologist, I may have some insight into the original posters question. Why do people hate on the police?

In short, it is stereotype bias.


A stereotype is a belief held about a animal (or person) based upon the group they are perceived to belong to. Some lead to inaccurate perceptions of what people are like. Sometimes they are valuable tools that help us make important decisions quickly with minimal cognitive effort. For example, the stereotype for a scorpion is that it is a deadly killer. Not all scorpions are going to conform to this expectation. But thinking they are "out to get you" does not really hurt anyone but the scorpion. So holding the stereotype that scorpions are deadly killers is (sort of) no big deal.

The problem comes when we should be doing effortfull processing of information, and instead rely on stereotypes. We see the uniform, and instead of waiting to find out what the person is like behind the uniform, we assume that they fit our stereotype because of the uniform.

It is just as bad as racism or prejudice. Saying all cops are "X" is as bad as saying All jews are "X" or all whites are "X" or all punks, goths, nerds, golfers etc are "X". It is ignorant, selfish and harmful. Take the time to think it through.

Before the cop says "I want to get a dog to sniff your car", they are going to ask you to let them search it.

Let them. Screw your subtle interpretation of the bill of rights. Debate is for school and a public forum. There is a time for political debate - the side of the road with a cop trying to do their job is not it. Give the cop a break and help them do their job - which is to protect and serve. If you want to make a difference, then get into politics, run for local government, and make a difference in policy. Trying to get into a debate about personal liberties with a police officer while they are in the line of duty is not going to change anything substantial. You may boost your ego or piss off the cop, either way, no one wins.

xTYBALTx

1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25))

27

2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent?

No and N/A. In fact most of my interactions with police officers have been quite positive. Quite positive. I've even had to call them to my property for help, and that was extremely positive. I've had a few traffic stops, nothing special there, even been let off for speeding once or twice.

3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?

First and foremost I have a problem with the laws which they enforce. But this is more a problem with legislators and the population as a whole than with LEOs.

I dislike LEOs because they seem a bit too vigourous in their enforcement of the law. Take vice laws for instance: Having cops send underage people into bars or liquor stores, busting parents who have parties with underage people drinking, just generally getting involved in others peoples private business. It all bothers me, it doesn't seem right.

After spending time overseas, this kind of vigorous enforcement just pisses me off more. I've seen foreign cops who are way more laid back, approachable, and friendly - and witnessing law enforcement done "wrong" in my own country disappoints me. Drinking age in Spain? 18. Enforcement of this law? Nonexistent. Zilch. If someone is drinking in public, pissing in public, drinking underage, partying loud, so on and so on, well who cares? Let it slide with a warning or better yet don't intervene at all. In some industrialized countries, ones identification doesn't even list the birth date. Those countries seem to be doing just fine despite that fact. Also, the fact that most cops are gigantic muscle bound dudes makes them look like "The Biggest Gang In Town," rather than people who are supposed to protect me.

I also resent the police for having chipped away at our civil liberties - asset seizure without trial, vehicle searches without a warrant... these seem like obvious violations of Constitutionally protected rights. Of course, it's DAs and US Attorneys and legislators who are to blame for this, but I'm disappointed that LEOs don't stand up for the rights they are supposed to be upholding.

Like I said, most of my problems stem from the laws LEOs are required to enforce. But even with the laws we do have, LEOs could be more lax, laid back, and lighthanded than they are. I've seen it done right elsewhere.

4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?

Hell yeah.

5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?

Be more polite, stay out of citizens' business. Stop hiring new cops for about five years, and in the meantime take 26 weeks vacation with 30 hour working weeks. ;] If there are enough cops to hassle people about having their dogs on the beach without a leash and to breakup high schoolers partying, there are too many of them.

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Current good song: Justice - Stress

mentholated

You sound like an honest cop to me Mag. And I appreciate that there are still honest cops in this country.

1. I'm 17

2. Never been arrested. Have I broken the law? Yes. But cops don't make the laws, they enforce them. The drug prohibition laws make me a criminal.

3. I don't hate cops. What I do hate is that there are some cops, in every department in EVERY area of the country who ARE corrupt. They get off on being an authority and consider themselves above civilians (once again I most make the point that when I say "they" I mean the corrupt cops, not the cops who are honest and just do their job correctly)

However, if martial law were ever enacted by the president, I would consider all police my enemy. All military, reservists, and police officers, and all government agents. If you're not a civilian, don't bother me because I will defend my land with the use of force if necessary.

4. I see no reason to 'change my mind' about cops, because I like the cops who are HONEST and respectable officers.

5. If all cops simply upheld the constitution and enforced the law, there would be NO problem.

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It's said the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is with the same good intentions that we blindly place our trust in those with power, the architects of our future and all to often, the manipulators of our ultimate fate.

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