pedestrian01

Well I'm only 21 years old, but I've had quite a few experiences with cops in the past few years. Some were alright guys others were complete jackasses.

The first time I was pulled over the cop was a nice guy. Traffic was pretty heavy on a local highway and there were three cars in the middle lane going about 10 over (It's a 4 lane highway with a 35 mph speed limit, everyone speeds.) I was the center car. A cop came behind us and turned on his lights. The other two cars quickly shoot off to one of the exits and disappear. Because I was the only one that actually stopped for the officer he let me off and told me that he had video of the other two's plates.

My next few interactions didn't go as well though.
It was my senior year in high school and someone had "hacked" the school's network. I was a big computer geek so I was immediately a suspect. The school made me go down to an office and be interviewed by a detective and the school cop. The first thing that came out of the detective's mouth was "This isn't an interrogation you don't need a lawyer". They asked me a bunch of stupid questions which I politely and truthfully answered and they ended the interview by thanking me and telling me they think they know who it was. 4 months go by and I hear nothing about it. One morning I'm at home and get a phone call from the detective, "This is Sgt. So and So I've got a felony warrant for your arrest." After I surrendered myself and was released on bond I got a copy of the police report. Reading the detectives recount of what I said in the interview infuriated me. He completely misquoted me, changing my words and making some up in some parts. Now I wasn't exactly innocent when it came to the school computers but I wasn't responsible for what I was charged with, but this guys report made it sound like I was a criminal mastermind. While I was in lockup for this they brought in a guy they arrested for driving on a suspended license. The guy had $1500 cash on him and the cops confiscated that because the dog barked at the money. The guy wasn't arrested for anything related to drugs but because he had money on him he was a dealer. I eventually was cleared but that whole ordeal left a bad impression of law enforcement officers.

Another incident was the fourth of July and my family was having a barbeque. My mother called the police because my neighbor's ex-husband was hitting her and trying to push her out of her house. I and 2 of my cousins went over there and scared the guy off as my mom was calling. Not that it should've mattered but she didn't tell the cop about my cousins and I. Well we waited 6 hours and they never showed. I posted about it on my city's community forums and had the chief himself contact me about it. He was nice enough and apologized and all.

Back in May of this year my house was broken into and robbed. An officer came to our house and took a report. She didn't go into the house just wrote down what was taken. I had a cordless phone base that was noticeably moved in my room. I told her about this and asked her to take it but she refused. She told me to call the detective bureau the next day which we did. We couldn't get a hold of a detective for 2 weeks calling everyday leaving countless messages and going to the station 3 times. By the time we finally got in touch with the detective and told him about the phone base he told us "We shouldn't have waited so long to get a hold of him. Any fingerprints are unusable". He told us it was our fault that the only piece of evidence was ruined.

I've had other experiences with cops but these are the ones that stick out.
I'm sure there are more good cops than bad ones out there but the bad ones make the entire profession look bad.

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JMJ

Okay, I might as well give some input

36, never been arrested, have seen one bad seed (how he got to Sgt. is beyond me). Until my early 30's, that encounter left me a bad opinion in general about the police.

I was officially sworn in as a law enforcement officer in August of 2006. I have been on the job for a little over a year now, working part time on Friday and Saturday nights. My fulltime job is a "Product Development Engineer" with Intel.

It is a job I have always wanted to do, i'm not sure why I never went that route many years ago. And I can tell you one thing, I now understand why cops do the things they do and I have nothing but the utmost respect for the police and the job they do. As Magnum said about working at night, I too would say 90% of the people I come into contant with are up to no good (although on many different levels). I treat everyone with respect, just as I would want to be treated. You are the one who controls how the encounter will play out. I don't make up laws, I just enforce what is on the books. I have only arrested one person that I actually felt bad about locking up. The poor guy had a warrant out for his arrest for littering (I can't believe someone popped him with that). I think the guy was probably borderline 70 IQ, but nonetheless I had to take him in. I cut people a lot of breaks simply because they are honest and respectful. I'm not the type of person who sends a good person with a clean record to jail for one stupid mistake or lapse of judgement (like the college senior with no criminal record who is about to graduate and has a joint on him).

My friends ask me why I would want to do a job where nearly everyone hates me. I do all this because I enjoy it, I enjoy helping people, and I like sending bad people to jail. The cops I work with are all professional and courteous, my chief won't tolerate an ouce of crap out of us, union or no union. When the residents of my city speak up, he is the first to listen (and he sometimes hinders our ability to do our job).

Just a couple points from things I have read in this thread.

Ferris - I hardly ever read anyone their Miranda rights. I usually have no need to. If I happen to approach a scene where you are holding a knife and your girlfriend is stabbed to death on the ground, you are more than likely going to be cuffed and placed under arrest for murder. Of course we didn't see what happened, so you will be mirandized and then questioned. Basically, "custody + interrogation = Mirandized". If I pull you over and you are driving on a suspended license, I don't have to question you about anything. You get arrested for driving on a suspended license. Of course, I'm a nice enough guy to tell you why you are being arrested Don't get nit picky on the murder scenario, I left out a lot of details but you get the general idea.

Switch - Surprisingly only one person has told me "no" that I can't search his car. It didn't matter, I had probable cause to search it anyway. The guy was also trespassing, an arrestable offense, and I would've done an inventory search of his car and looked in the trunk anyway. Even when I as an officer have a right to search a vehicle, if I haven't placed the person under arrest yet I ask just as a courtesy. I can usually get a good read on a person based on their response. Oh, and the last guy who told me "I know my rights" went to jail for trespassing and refusing to identify himself to a police officer. My point to you is be sure you know the laws as well as your rights

TheFeniX

My real issue is it being used to essentially force a person who is stopped to choose between waiting around for however long it takes to get a Canine unit out there or just let them search anyways because they're probably going to find an excuse. And after seeing first hand that utter lack of respect officers seem to have for other people's private property, I'll fight a cop's desire to search my car on principle alone. The last thing I need is him ripping up my seat covers or (un)intentionally damaging a speaker connection.

If enough cops refuse to enforce a certain law, then the law becomes unimportant. Jurors have the same ability. Now, this isn't always good, but the precedent is there.

At your discretion.

There is suspicious activity and there's two people carrying on a conversation in a parking lot that has nothing to do with the officer.

How your guys handle a situation is their call. I'm just trying to give some insight into how people perceive that.

Who do people respect more: the guy who drags himself to the same level as some punk kid with a potty mouth, or the guy who holds his head high and still goes along with "business as usual," when confronted by that punk kid?

I expect certain people to be foul mouthed, crude, and generally immature. I don't expect that from a police officer. Just as I don't expect that from any workplace professional.

Statistically, police work isn't nearly as dangerous as many other more common jobs. In fact, I've never even seen it take a "top 10" spot. Many officers also go their entire careers without firing their sidearm.

I've also spoken with many cops and most of them give me the "we treat all traffic stops like they could go south" and that's a good thing. Just like a fire-fighter treating all fires he might fight as possible 4-alarm fires. It still doesn't change my assertion that regular citizens don't need to be reminded of this when you have them pulled over.

When a cop has you pulled over, he has an uncanny ability to make a situation a lot more stressful if he wants to. Hell, he may not even want to, he just might not notice what he's doing.

People want to poke holes in your professionalism to make themselves feel better. "I didn't deserve that ticket, that cop was just being a dick." By stepping back and removing the "pressure (for lack of a better term)" from the situation, a cop at least has the defense of "I handled myself as a professional, so at least they can respect that."

I use the term "professional" a Hell of a lot because I have talks with my friends about LEOs. The topic comes up, for some reason, every time they bring up my CHL. Most every complaint I hear about cops is their inability to "stay cool-headed," "not argue with me," or "not act like I'm scum because I was going 10 mph over the speed-limit." 99% of the comments I hear can be replaced with "The officer could have acted more professional."

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Morganan

I agree, but the education to me (in lieu of military service) proves you are dedicated to something other then a paycheck. Maybe if the officers had a related degree in the criminal justice field they might have a slight understanding of the laws they are supposed to be enforcing. There has got to be higher qualifications other then "you can't have been arrested for a felony and be able to pass a drug test" otherwise you get to many people best suited for the food service industry just trying to increase their paycheck. It's not about English Literature being a boon to a police officer, it's about showing the willingness to make a commitment and follow through on it.

CingularDuality

I'm a law enforcement officer and I feel the same way. Nothing wrong with making police do their jobs...
Actually, there's a SCOTUS decision that says you can't be required to carry an ID card. You DO have to accurately identify yourself if the police ask you for your identity, though (name, DOB, and city of residence, for example).

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El_Gringo_Grande

39 in a couple of days. Never been arrested. Was ticketed for skinny dipping after hours in the public pool. That, and one traffic ticket back when I was 17, is the sum of my illegal activity.

My issue with the people that are cops are those that believe they are guarding or protecting the good citizens of a community. They are not. They protect nobody. They enforce laws. Laws are, in almost all cases, restrictive. So all they are is a citizen who has been given the power to restrict others actions. They can't stop somebody before they commit a crime. You can only arrest them after they have broken a law. Some cops really need to be put in their place. I hate the attitude of "us against them" many cops and citizens seem to have. But I do feal that citizens have a responsibilty to be suspect of government in general and cops should respect that.*

I grew up in a small town so my view is somewhat skewed. The cops there where just guys you hung out with. Sometimes they had to arrest a person because, well, that was their job. They understood that really it was the people who kept the order. That if the town wanted to go bad it would and there was not one thing they could do to stop it. And if a Cop wasn't liked that cop had very little power to do anything. There was one cop around where I lived that was an outsider. He arrested a very popular person one day and ruffed her up a bit (she actually fell down because she was drunk and skinned her knee. She wasn't driving or anything. Just being a loud mouth.). This cop was no longer welcomed in any store. People would tell jokes about him and laugh in his face. One store actually refused to serve him even while he was in uniform. You see, his problem was he never tried to become a part of the community. He thought he was important and that the law he enforced was more important than the people of the area.

Wrong.

I think cops should realize this. That they are only able to do their job because the people allow them that honor. And it is an honor bestowed upon you by the people. Realize this and act like it. The attitude I hear is simply disgusting. It is almost like you feel you deserve respect. You don't. Nobody does. You have to earn it.

Of course in an urban area how do you achieve this level of respect? I don't know. It often seems that the police have more power than the people themselves and that is disgusting and worrisome. Of course it is the government that gives them this power but some cops are a little to willing to use it.

I was listening to a guy from the UK the other day. He moved hear a couple of years ago. He said that the problem in the UK, especially London, is that people have simply given up and just go along with whatever the government tells them is best. He is worried because he is starting to see it happen in America. This is my point.

I believe we are giving up our power (or rights if you prefer) for reasons I really don't understand. I guess it is this odd generalized fear people seem to be possessed with. Terrorists, drugs, lead paint, bad spinach, immigrants, dirty bombs, anthrax, bird flu…. We are afraid of so many things. And we keep making these stupid laws and giving the police too much power to enforce them.

In the end laws and police are not going to get rid of or control the threats. But they might end up tearing apart the society they are trying to protect.

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Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
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I’m not racists, I have republican friends.
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"The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - emerson
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"People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta

El_Gringo_Grande

And I meant to add this.

Consider that the president is around 35% approval and has a big disapproval rating and congress is sitting at around 12% approval. Now consider that cops are just the physical tool of those bodies and are supposed to enforce what those bodies do.

Police officers should count their blessing that they have the support that they do. It is like that other question "Can you support the troops but not the war?". What about "Can you support your cops but not the government?"

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Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
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I’m not racists, I have republican friends.
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"The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
---
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - emerson
----
"People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta

Hambergler

I live in a city inside a city(very small). And we have our own police force. The response time is under 2 minutes. The reputation of the police here weighed heavily on my decision to move here. Everyone knows not to f*** around in this neighborhood because of the strict cops and I am grateful. I am also grateful that they are not as strict outside my area because I can't drive fifty fiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvee. The only thing I wish, is for cops to be a little more friendly. Maybe say hi once in a while or smile instead of walking around all military. It seems that they were alot nicer 20 years ago. I like the idea of neighborhood cops vs government law enforcers.

Just my .02

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Magnum50

yes I do, and so do all of you. I don't do this to make money or be famous, I do it because I care for the Innocent victims that criminal bullies pick on and victimize.


I for one, feel it is OK to give up some personal rights in the interest of my family, my community, and my-selfs security.



Oh really, so that child rapist I caught hiding in the back of someones yard at 3 AM about 2 weeks ago, who admitted he was going to "kidnap" the girl that lived there, I didn't save anyone then.

Oh, 2 months ago a friend of mine stops a car heading to Miami loaded with explosives, believed to be on his way for a terrorist attack from other information, that didn't save anyone.

oh the countless traffic stops I do and find burglary items, or drugs, or even a 12 year old girl who was being held captive by 4 males and repeatedly raped, I didn't save her.

I really think alot of you have no clue what the hell the police does, I think you guys think we are glorified meter maids or something... that is a shame.



Thank you all for your comments, feedback etc ect... i learned alot, but I'm going to be honest with you... I thought this might open up some minds, get stuff out in the open with my gaming community members... but frankly I'm kinda sick with some comments and attitudes.

it was a good try, and good luck.

(as I shake my head in disgust and disbelief, then go sleep for 4 hours so I can do nothing important tonight at work.)

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Magnum
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JMJ

Mentholated, what Cing said. Here in MA, if you are breaking the law and an officer ask you to identify yourself, you must identify yourself. If you refuse, that's another arrestable offense. I don't care if you have ID or a DL, I can work with name/DOB or SSN. Contrary to belief, we don't go around asking people for ID just because we are bored or want to bust your balls.

BHack

The vast majority of my police encounters have been positive. The problem is, and I think this goes for others, is that the bad encounters REALLY stick out. It's one thing to complain about a co-worker, a family member, or a friend - but police are the GOVERNMENT and the GOVERNMENT and its represenatives are supposed to do everything perfect and by the book.

You can scream back at a family member, you can quit your job, but you can't easily leave society. If you feel wronged by a representative of the law it leaves a very bad taste in your mouth.

The few times I had bad run ins with police were when they started out the encounter extremely pissed at me. Like the guy had taken personal offense to whatever crime I had committed (or he thought I had).

It can't be emotionally healthy to get angry at random strangers so often. When they stop being professional/cool/level-headed is when I loose respect for them and things go poorly. I'm really not interested in being "scolded" or talked down to like I'm some moron. Give me the ticket, say what its for and why you stopped me, then be on your merry way. So much less stressful for everyone involved.

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Ferris Bueller

I think the last question is quite flawed, and that the basic premise that the police are the long arm of the government is absolutely wrong. The police are the arm of the LAW. Yes, the government makes those laws on a federal level, however, the state governments and local governments also make laws. Law enforcement officers are responsible for upholding the laws specific to their jurisdiction. This is a big point seeing as there are thousands of laws that differ from place to place.

Having support for police officers shouldnt have anything to do with the government unless you feel that the laws they enforce are unconstitutional or otherwise a violation of your personal rights. As it stands, while congress may only have a 12% approval rating, I very seriously doubt that anything that the police have done to enforce the laws that are on the books has effected that approval rating.

With the war, it's a different story. That was a governmental decision and we have seen things that make us less fond of the war and *some* of the people fighting it (read: those involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal and prisoner torture and such). But for the most part, we support the men and women who fight because they are following orders. You can absolutely support the troops and not the war. You can also absolutely support law enforcement but not the government due to the fact that, aside from the laws which they are tasked to uphold, the two have nothing to do with one another. Politicians get arrested for breaking the law all the time, they are no more immune than anyone else in the country. Now, in the aftermath, they may be able to hire better lawyers than the rest of us and get off scott-free, but they are still subject to the enforcement of the laws on the books.

Sure, on some level, law enforcement does serve the government directly, but not as you are implying. They are not thugs who go around stiff-arming the public into conformity with the decisions that the government makes. Law enforcement officers are people too, and many people here have described situations in which they have clearly broken laws and an officer has let them go with nothing. They use their judgment to make the call whether the offense is heinous enough to warrant punishment, and mostly rightly so. The government isnt going to pass laws that the people of the country wont abide, simply because we are given the right by our own doctrine to rise against the government if something along those lines does happen.

So can you support the police without supporting the government? Without question. They are two separate bodies of people, all subject to the same laws, all subject to the same enforcement, neither forcing the other to carry out any specific action. They are not one and the same, so the question becomes moot on principle alone.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

El_Gringo_Grande

You ask a provocative question like "why do YOU hate the cops" and you get offended when somebody answers honestly? You wanted honesty and you are getting it. Just like your comment about if the person is disrespectful you tell your men it is "game on". You are correct, I don't like it. But I do understand it. Weak officer response to attitude opens up the floodgates for crime.

So opening minds goes two ways. It can't be just one way.

You demonstrate exactly what I was pointing out. You want automatic recognition and respect from everybody simply because you do a certain job. And because you did not get the level of respect desired you get disgusted. Just because somebody does not worship the law and those enforcing it you walk away.

You say you will listen but you don't.

I even answered your questions of what people want. But you missed what I was trying to say because you are offended. This happens a lot I would expect. The people voice complaints about what is going on and the officers only hear the negative because they do not understand or respect the people making the complaints.

Read again what I said.

If you read closely then you will, I hope, see that :

1. I don't hate cops. In fact most of them I have known where guys I drank beer and went hunting with. The few I have come into contact with while they where working where exceedingly nice. There have been some I have know that disgusted me. But they disgusted me as a human. I did not know them as "cops" only during their off duty time and they where racist ignorant and a bunch of other things.
2. So to answer you #4 question, I don't think I need to change my mind about cops.
3. To answer #5. Be humans, neighbors, citizens, family first and cops a very distant second. Let the people decide if you are a good human being (and I am convinced that most cops are respectable humans). Let government decide if you are a good cop.

Secondly…

Don't carry the worlds problems all by yourself. Cops cannot protect us all by themselves. That girl that was found, she was already raped. Not your fault you didn't get to her before that, although it sounds like you would blame yourself. I see that a lot. Cops blaming themselves because they can't protect every person. Well, it isn't your respo