mentholated

Yeah, you're right, EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 is plain out not what what I quoted at all, but the quote thats there does refer to another executive order that I can't remember right now. Many executive orders have seemingly unrelated details in them that don't pertain to the actual topic but are simply added as foot notes, one would assume so that they aren't noticed. I copied these descriptions from a pdf I had somewhere but I was mainly looking for 11921, the one switchcraft wanted to see.

edit:

I suggest you all read this one too:

http://www.dojgov.net/Executive_Order_11490.pdf

chris934

Im not letting the movie tell me anything. I already knew these facts the movie just happens to be a convenient way to show them to you. I dont understand how you can argue with the facts in the movie when all of these people are getting aquitted when brought to trial because THERE IS NO LAW. If you are saying that the people interviewed are biased, thats one thing. But these people have won cases because the government has not produced the laws. If the government would create a proper law and show me where my money is going (and prove its not going to pay the interest on the money lent to them by the Federal reserve) I would be more then happy to pay the tax.

If you read your own link you will see that it is only the rules for how the income tax works. Not a law requireing us to pay it. Regardless of whether or not Some form of income tax existed (even though what you are talking about is income tax for business which is completely constitutional and has nothing to do with personal income tax) That does not change the fact that it is an unconstitutional direct unapportioned tax. The fact that it still exists is Further proof of the governments corruption.

EDIT: Also did you actually watch the movie or are you dismissing it cause it sounds like a conspiracy movie? I find it hard to believe that you watched the film after reading what you said. I may be wrong though.

Also sense I mentioned the federal reserve I will include a link to another film(same website) that explains what I was referencing.

http://www.moviesfoundonline.com/fiat_empire.php

Mysidia

1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25)) I'm 29

2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent? N/A for both

3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?
I dislike when they abuse their power. I live in NJ and certain towns, cops are infamous for throwing on their cherries and going through lights so they don't have to sit at them. Some towns are also notorious for pulling people over that they don't recognize (if you're in a small town).

I don't hate cops. My grandfather was a State Trooper. They're people just like you and me. My problem is when they think they're above the law. You expect civies to follow the law? Lead by example.

4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?
In certain towns? Probably not. Stereotypes are there for a reason and the towns I mentioned above, I just avoid the towns. I'm sure others do as well and probably kills commerce in the town because of it.

5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?
1. Not everyone is out to give you a hard time. 2. You don't need to demean people to get respect. 3. And for the cases I stated above, lead by example.

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chris934

If you are adressing me then you can find the answer to all of those questions in this same thread when I answered them weeks ago.

ScratchMonkey

Only a day would give people no time to adjust, and given that the populace has been emasculated by gun control laws, no tools to protect themselves, either.

Take the cops away for a year, in a jurisdiction where individuals have the right to carry. That might be a far more interesting experiment.

I expect that in urban areas, we'll see businesses and their insurance suppliers contract to supply the protection they need. And because that protection is private, it won't have the shield of a badge to protect individual protectors from any shenanigans they engage in. They'll have to stand trial as citizens instead of undergoing internal review. (When Blackwater screws up, isn't it subject to this kind of legal action?)

For those who think the poor, not just business, needs police protection: Put your money where your mouth is and hire some to protect your poor. That way you can personally ensure that they go into the dangerous neighborhoods you think need protection. You don't have to hope that your mayor and other local politicians share your priorities. You'll have direct control of the purse strings.

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Delta*RandyShugart*

Coming from the guy who is probably the politest citizen when pulled over with marijuana in his car/or speeding.......

First off, from your post about your friend who broke into your house and stole things from you which included weapons, you mentioned it was a friend......and it seemed that he had access to your house pretty much whenever he wanted to go there, so there really wasn't anything for the police to do (i hope you called them right away/filled out a report), if you had filed a report before this happened because you were afraid of something happening (and they didn't do anything) that is one thing, but the police are not babysitters........everyone knows that.

I never said that the police have free reign over everything and get away with everything, so please don't post things i didn't say (you do this a lot). When and where did you get mugged? Time, place? its common knowledge in manhattan that after 12am or 1am that people shouldn't ride the subway, let alone ride it alone......if its late at night and i am in nyc, i will take a cab, rather than walk down the street alone, safety and common sense first.....i hope you called the police or 911 after you were mugged and gave a report, bc if you didn't you can't blame the police.

"They are spending half their time arresting people for stupid stuff like drugs anyway." Hmmm, how is that stupid? No need to respond to that, that was just one piece of your response that made me chuckle, because heaven forbid they raid a crack house or seize a huge amount of drugs, or arrest drug dealers (the drug war issue is a whole other can of worms).

"We dont need corrupt police with no controls running amuk in our communities." - you are making a generalization which is unfair and incorrect...maybe that is the problem in detroit, but remember this: both of us are not internal affair detectives, nor are with D.A.'s who go after corrupt cops, and we both are not in law enforcement.....so making generalizations like this really won't hold that much water.....

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Switchcraft

That's not true. Don't cite the movie, cite the actual court decisions...people were not quitted because there "is no law." I just cited you the actual law!
1. Okay, Article I, Section 8 says Congress can impose a tax, and there is an actual law that says "there is hereby imposed" a tax on EVERY person who meets certain criteria, and even when you read the law, you think that a tax on "every person" who meets the requirement is somehow voluntary for those people? No. That's the law. If you want to argue the Constitutionality of the law, that's easy enough too, but Title 26, United States Code, is enacted by Congress. It's law.
2. People did not win any court cases because a court determined there is no income tax law. The director himself has tax liens against him. Cite a court case where a court determined there is no law that imposes income tax. I see a lot of interviews in the movie, but not a single case holding that there is no law.
"There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every individual...a tax determined in accordance with the following table." Yes, it is a law describing how the tax works. It's also a law imposing a tax on everyone!

Your description of income taxes for businesses only is absolutely incorrect. People were filing federal tax returns in the 1860s! See Revenue Act of 1862, updated in 1864.It even covered having taxes being withheld by the employer which is completely at odds with your unfounded statement that prior to the 16th Amendment only businesses were taxed.

And then Spinger v United States was argued, and personal income taxes were ruled "indirect taxes" not subject to apportionment. In 1894, another income tax was imposed, and in the 1895 Pollack case the portions of it taxing income derived from real property were struck down, but the tax on wages earned was not.

Switch

Focus people focus! Start up a new tax thread if you like.

Lets keep this on task --> Pointing out the instances of police abuse that cause a general distrust of the police force.

So, to that last video that clearly depicts unwarranted arrests and then goes on to show falsified claims in the arrest reports.

Can our members who are sympathetic to the plight of being a police officer account for this blatent abuse of power coupled with false arrest bearing false witness?

Also, this link: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...9081bike1.html will provide scans of the legal papers for the first video - the biker who was taken down violently at random.

That guy was charged with: 3rd degree Attempted Assault - Disorderly Conduct - Resisting arrest. Read the paperwork to see how ridiculous it is.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Delta*RandyShugart*

i find it funny that the mess ups always get so much more attention but the good things never get as much......we can disagree all the time on the foul ups of the police department, and to change that, i am going to start posting the positive points that will always outweigh the negative ones.

i can't wait to see how mentholated(who i only know of name and from his posts here) and chris894567845.6987 respond to this......

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Switch

The positive points have no bearing on the argument at hand.

One police officer saving a family of 5 from a burning car at the scene of an accident does not excuse other police officers like those in the videos above for assault and flase arrest.

__________________
|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Gillespie

It's valid if he's rebutting the statements that "all cops suck".

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Switch

Im not sure that anyone seriously consideres 'all cops suck' as a sincere or accurate statement.

__________________
|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

mentholated

Respond to what, exactly? I'm not involved in this tax discussion. But, I still consider the income tax unfair and unconstitional (read: the 9th amendment). I'm in favor of a tax based on what people consume rather than what they earn. If I'm ever in a position where my pay isn't directly taxed, I will give them a cent. Especially considering that the federal government is an utter failure.

Delta*RandyShugart*

sure it does, because this isn't a flame thread......

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chris934

I will address each of your paragraphs in order by number. (not including the first short one. as i believe i am the most polite person ever pulled over with pot )

1) I have an entire thread about the robbery, his arrest, trial, and supposed penalty.
SEE: "dude robs my house gets a slap on the wrist" and ""why must people rob my house?" for all the answers to your questions from that paragraph

2)I was mugged at 9 pm in Livonia Michigan (consistently believed to be one of the safest cities with a population over 100,000 ,listen to what the chief of the Livonia police department has to say.

http://www.livoniapd.com/default.asp.../adm_chief_msg

My bike was stolen by a guy with a knife when I was leaving a house party only 2 miles from my home. No i didnt file a police report. but that is irrelevant to your statement, because you claim that we need the police to "protect us" and that "if the police were gone for a day people would see they need them" (paraphrasing but that was the general idea). The police did not PROTECT me. So how would It help to call? I didnt know the guys name it was dark so I couldnt really describe him. and you know (even if you wont admit it) as well as me that they not only would not have found the guy but they probably wouldnt have even bothered to look.

I never said you said that the police run amuk. That was my own opinion in response to your statement. Do you see the game mister Randy is trying to get me to play here? This and his other post (where he makes fun of me by calling me chris834859898456984.43875634 lol!!!! or whatever are just attempts to get me angry so he and his buds can pull the same crap they did to me last week and i wont let it happen)

3) wake up people drug crimes are ARTIFICIALLY CREATED. If drugs were legal and controlled by the government there would be no criminal reason to get involved. Crack heads need treatment and access to quality untainted drugs not incarceration. It would be like locking up alcoholics or cigarette smokers. Drug use is a medical issue not a criminal one.

4)I am only saying that police are not held to the same standard as the rest of us. For anymore opinions see the ones i already posted in this thread.