Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... - Page 4

**Ferris Bueller** · 10-26-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Gringo_Grande

And I meant to add this.

Consider that the president is around 35% approval and has a big disapproval rating and congress is sitting at around 12% approval. Now consider that cops are just the physical tool of those bodies and are supposed to enforce what those bodies do.

Police officers should count their blessing that they have the support that they do. It is like that other question "Can you support the troops but not the war?". What about "Can you support your cops but not the government?"

I think the last question is quite flawed, and that the basic premise that the police are the long arm of the government is absolutely wrong. The police are the arm of the LAW. Yes, the government makes those laws on a federal level, however, the state governments and local governments also make laws. Law enforcement officers are responsible for upholding the laws specific to their jurisdiction. This is a big point seeing as there are thousands of laws that differ from place to place.

Having support for police officers shouldnt have anything to do with the government unless you feel that the laws they enforce are unconstitutional or otherwise a violation of your personal rights. As it stands, while congress may only have a 12% approval rating, I very seriously doubt that anything that the police have done to enforce the laws that are on the books has effected that approval rating.

With the war, it's a different story. That was a governmental decision and we have seen things that make us less fond of the war and *some* of the people fighting it (read: those involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal and prisoner torture and such). But for the most part, we support the men and women who fight because they are following orders. You can absolutely support the troops and not the war. You can also absolutely support law enforcement but not the government due to the fact that, aside from the laws which they are tasked to uphold, the two have nothing to do with one another. Politicians get arrested for breaking the law all the time, they are no more immune than anyone else in the country. Now, in the aftermath, they may be able to hire better lawyers than the rest of us and get off scott-free, but they are still subject to the enforcement of the laws on the books.

Sure, on some level, law enforcement does serve the government directly, but not as you are implying. They are not thugs who go around stiff-arming the public into conformity with the decisions that the government makes. Law enforcement officers are people too, and many people here have described situations in which they have clearly broken laws and an officer has let them go with nothing. They use their judgment to make the call whether the offense is heinous enough to warrant punishment, and mostly rightly so. The government isnt going to pass laws that the people of the country wont abide, simply because we are given the right by our own doctrine to rise against the government if something along those lines does happen.

So can you support the police without supporting the government? Without question. They are two separate bodies of people, all subject to the same laws, all subject to the same enforcement, neither forcing the other to carry out any specific action. They are not one and the same, so the question becomes moot on principle alone.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 10-26-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

yes I do, and so do all of you. I don't do this to make money or be famous, I do it because I care for the Innocent victims that criminal bullies pick on and victimize.

I for one, feel it is OK to give up some personal rights in the interest of my family, my community, and my-selfs security.

Oh really, so that child rapist I caught hiding in the back of someones yard at 3 AM about 2 weeks ago, who admitted he was going to "kidnap" the girl that lived there, I didn't save anyone then.

Oh, 2 months ago a friend of mine stops a car heading to Miami loaded with explosives, believed to be on his way for a terrorist attack from other information, that didn't save anyone.

oh the countless traffic stops I do and find burglary items, or drugs, or even a 12 year old girl who was being held captive by 4 males and repeatedly raped, I didn't save her.

I really think alot of you have no clue what the hell the police does, I think you guys think we are glorified meter maids or something... that is a shame.

Thank you all for your comments, feedback etc ect... i learned alot, but I'm going to be honest with you... I thought this might open up some minds, get stuff out in the open with my gaming community members... but frankly I'm kinda sick with some comments and attitudes.

it was a good try, and good luck.

(as I shake my head in disgust and disbelief, then go sleep for 4 hours so I can do nothing important tonight at work.)

You ask a provocative question like "why do YOU hate the cops" and you get offended when somebody answers honestly? You wanted honesty and you are getting it. Just like your comment about if the person is disrespectful you tell your men it is "game on". You are correct, I don't like it. But I do understand it. Weak officer response to attitude opens up the floodgates for crime.

So opening minds goes two ways. It can't be just one way.

You demonstrate exactly what I was pointing out. You want automatic recognition and respect from everybody simply because you do a certain job. And because you did not get the level of respect desired you get disgusted. Just because somebody does not worship the law and those enforcing it you walk away.

You say you will listen but you don't.

I even answered your questions of what people want. But you missed what I was trying to say because you are offended. This happens a lot I would expect. The people voice complaints about what is going on and the officers only hear the negative because they do not understand or respect the people making the complaints.

Read again what I said.

If you read closely then you will, I hope, see that :

1. I don't hate cops. In fact most of them I have known where guys I drank beer and went hunting with. The few I have come into contact with while they where working where exceedingly nice. There have been some I have know that disgusted me. But they disgusted me as a human. I did not know them as "cops" only during their off duty time and they where racist ignorant and a bunch of other things.
2. So to answer you #4 question, I don't think I need to change my mind about cops.
3. To answer #5. Be humans, neighbors, citizens, family first and cops a very distant second. Let the people decide if you are a good human being (and I am convinced that most cops are respectable humans). Let government decide if you are a good cop.

Secondly…

Don't carry the worlds problems all by yourself. Cops cannot protect us all by themselves. That girl that was found, she was already raped. Not your fault you didn't get to her before that, although it sounds like you would blame yourself. I see that a lot. Cops blaming themselves because they can't protect every person. Well, it isn't your responsibility to protect us. We the people should be protecting ourselves and getting the cops/governments resources to help in this self-protection.

I don't know how individual cops can accomplish the above. People seem to be whining all the time about how the cops/government are not protecting them enough. This is really going to require a massive change in public thinking. When you take on the responsibility of protecting the world from bad people you are going to get a attitude. Especially when you realize that you can't actually protect them. That, at best, all you can do is minimize the damage done.

Magnum, you already realized this to a certain extent when you took on 5 guys alone. You realized you need the help of your fellow officers to do your job and remain alive. You, and many of your peers, need to realize that you need the public to be on your side. To help you out. You need to realize that you cannot do anything of value without their support. You then need to realize that you are not going to get their support simply because you have a uniform and carry a gun.

But you do bring up another thing that annoys me about some cops. Many automatically assume that nobody else has seen the horrors that humans do to each other. That only cops see the ugly side of humanity and only they can understand "what it is like". When angry or in a debate many will throw out the "you are an ignorant fool and have no idea what we go through". When you do that you are setting yourself up for isolation. An isolated public servant is not a good thing. I mean, how can anyone like or relate to something that is so unique and apart from my existence that I have no way to understand anything you do? Why should we even attempt a dialog when my side can in no way understand your side?

Plus there is the whole "you need us, we are the only ones between good and evil. You are weak and helpless without us." thing that is implicit in those kind of statements. Not conducive to warm fuzzy feelings that we all like.

Switch · 10-26-2007, 04:42 PM

So what point was I wrong about?

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 10-26-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

I think the last question is quite flawed, and that the basic premise that the police are the long arm of the government is absolutely wrong. The police are the arm of the LAW. Yes, the government makes those laws on a federal level, however, the state governments and local governments also make laws. Law enforcement officers are responsible for upholding the laws specific to their jurisdiction. This is a big point seeing as there are thousands of laws that differ from place to place.

Having support for police officers shouldnt have anything to do with the government unless you feel that the laws they enforce are unconstitutional or otherwise a violation of your personal rights. As it stands, while congress may only have a 12% approval rating, I very seriously doubt that anything that the police have done to enforce the laws that are on the books has effected that approval rating.

With the war, it's a different story. That was a governmental decision and we have seen things that make us less fond of the war and *some* of the people fighting it (read: those involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal and prisoner torture and such). But for the most part, we support the men and women who fight because they are following orders. You can absolutely support the troops and not the war. You can also absolutely support law enforcement but not the government due to the fact that, aside from the laws which they are tasked to uphold, the two have nothing to do with one another. Politicians get arrested for breaking the law all the time, they are no more immune than anyone else in the country. Now, in the aftermath, they may be able to hire better lawyers than the rest of us and get off scott-free, but they are still subject to the enforcement of the laws on the books.

Sure, on some level, law enforcement does serve the government directly, but not as you are implying. They are not thugs who go around stiff-arming the public into conformity with the decisions that the government makes. Law enforcement officers are people too, and many people here have described situations in which they have clearly broken laws and an officer has let them go with nothing. They use their judgment to make the call whether the offense is heinous enough to warrant punishment, and mostly rightly so. The government isn't going to pass laws that the people of the country wont abide, simply because we are given the right by our own doctrine to rise against the government if something along those lines does happen.

So can you support the police without supporting the government? Without question. They are two separate bodies of people, all subject to the same laws, all subject to the same enforcement, neither forcing the other to carry out any specific action. They are not one and the same, so the question becomes moot on principle alone.

It isn't flawed at all. Just a more spread out. You are right that there are many different levels of the law.

So I hate my towns "no drinking in public" law (which, in fact, I do hate) . Can I support the cop that arrests me just because the town has made a stupid law? I know some that can't. They take the attitude of "the cop should know it's a bad law and not enforce it, or at least quite".

I don't know. Just a question that is related to the topic.

And some cops are doing things that some of us really don't like. Not cops exactly but members of the FBI and CIA and such. The phone snooping stuff. If I remember correctly some members of those groups quit their job in protest of that stuff. And that is something I really hate about the current congress/president. Now I have to ask myself if I can continue to support the groups that actually carried out the order to snoop. That one is a bit harder for me. At some point the individual has to take responsibility for their actions. And America believes that also, I believe. At the Nuremberg trials we didn't let everybody off the hook just because they had orders.

Now lets take this back to the marches for civil rights. The laws where wrong. We all agree. But many that protested those laws where arrested for breaking other laws. The government was wrong any way you look at it. Had the arrests/dogs/water cannons/other nasty things actually worked and intimidated the protestors and things remained the same can you say it was the cops fault?

So at time they are thugs that go around stiff arming the public into conformity. Well, at least they do try to do so.

A question for the knowledgeable. Do you have anything akin the "must obey any direct and lawful order" thing in the police force? I know they can't shoot you but can they punish you in some way like, say, firing you? Maybe it is a violation of some law not to follow orders and failing to do so will result in jail time?

**Ferris Bueller** · 10-26-2007, 05:22 PM

I cant directly speak for it because I dont know, but I do believe that most law enforcement agencies have rules regarding dereliction of duty and insubordination.

On the subject of the civil rights movement, yes, I agree that the government was wrong in all aspects. The laws were wrong, enforcing those laws was wrong, but hindsight is always 20-20 and we have to take into account the fact that there had to be law enforcement officers involved who felt terrible about having to enforce those laws, but still had to to keep their families fed. Not to say that is any kind of ultimate justification, but more a mitigating circumstance.

Drizzid · 10-26-2007, 06:07 PM

To anyone who has an issue with officers in general all I can say is until you have walked in their shoes I would be very hesitant to be so quick to criticize. Try putting your life on the line for every minute you are at work and see how you would change. Try putting your life on the line when the odds are stacked against you in most scenarios you will encounter and see how you would handle yourself I have volunteered with a local agency for a brief time as a dispatcher and I will agree that the biggest issue with officers are the ones with the big attitudes. They are usually the ones that become officers for just the adrenaline of being a police officer and not for the love of civic duty. When an officer has a true love of civic duty then you will see it in the way he does his job. When one does it for adrenaline you will see it in the way he handles himself AND the way he does his job.

Respect can go a long way for both parties involved

JMJ · 10-26-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentholated

I believe someone already pointed out the SCOTUS decision, so you may want to read up a few pages. I said there is no law requiring anyone to show ID. Identifying yourself verbally is not the same as "showing ID". And when I visit MA and a cop asks me to show him ID, even if it is you, I will refuse. I'll tell you my name, where I live, and my DOB. Thats it. You can arrest me if you want to, but I assure you whatever charges you place upon me (assuming I'm not caught breaking a law or reported) will be dropped. And you will have a complaint filed against you.

(if the law is different regarding this in MA, then please forgive me)

edit: oh, you quoted him.. nevermind

ignore this

Wow, the hostility against someone just trying to do their job astounds me. Just as a tip, if you get pulled over in MA and you refuse to show your DL, you are going to go to jail and you will have no recourse against the officer or the department. We don't have access to other state's RMV/DMV records so we will have no idea if you are a licensed driver.

To the masses, I suggest you call your local PD and surrounding PD's and ask them if they allow civilians to do ride-a-longs. It will give you a better appreciation of what the police do and might open your eyes a bit. My only recommendation is to stay away from riding with a traffic cop, because that crap will absolutely bore you to death

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 10-26-2007, 10:12 PM

You don't have to go along with a cop to see the underbelly of humanity. You could hang out with the criminals themselves. That's what I did.

The drug dealers, the strippers and prostitutes and their "managers". (They don't call themselves pimps in Oklahoma.) Ohhhh and bounty hunters. Now those people are scary. Funny thing is some of them are just as bad, or even worse, than the people they are going after. They are nothing like "Dog the Bounty Hunter" you see on TV. Every single one I knew had a serious meth problem. They bragged about stealing from the people they where rounding up.

There was also the time I lived in very bad neighborhoods in Newport News. Here is one little story.

About 3 or 4 in the morning I awake to screaming and kids crying. I open the door to the hallway and some big guy is yelling and pounding on the door up the stairs. About a minute late I see the cop lights. I wait but no cop. The guy upstairs is still yelling and screaming and the woman is also. I hear things being thrown or something.

Still no cop. He is sitting out in his car. Why? Well I find out later that this particular apartment complex is considered so dangerous that a cop is not "allowed" to enter it by them self. There had to be at least two of them. Considering some of the stuff I saw around there I don't really blame them.*

But the fact was I had to go into that place on a daily basis. The apartment complex I was in before was abandoned by the Navy. A shoot out happened right in front of my window. I couldn't see it because of the parked cars but I did hear it nice and loud. A couple of days before that one of my friends was doing laundry and some 14 yr old kid showed him a gun and asked for all his quarters.

Two points. You don't have to do a ride along to see the crap a cop sees. Really you just have to be poor or live in the wrong place and you will see plenty.

Second is that some people live in the places you only have to patrol. They live there without backup or a vest or gun. I and many of my shipmates lived there because that is where the Navy put us. I never felt like I was in any danger but I knew not to do certain things like walk around after dark. (Oh, and Navy rules prevented us from having fire arms. I had a shotgun but had to keep it in my Scout.)

*Edit. To be clear I don't know that for a fact. That is what the lady next door told me. A very nice lady, kinda like the grandma of the building. But I do know he didn't get out of the car until two other police arrived.

**CingularDuality** · 10-26-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ

Wow, the hostility against someone just trying to do their job astounds me. Just as a tip, if you get pulled over in MA and you refuse to show your DL, you are going to go to jail and you will have no recourse against the officer or the department. We don't have access to other state's RMV/DMV records so we will have no idea if you are a licensed driver.

Let's make sure we distinguish the fact that a DL is more than just an ID. It's also permission to drive on public streets, which is why you can be arrested for driving without one. You don't have to have an ID to walk on any public street anywhere in the United States of America (assuming you're a US citizen), and that's a very good thing.

Switch · 10-27-2007, 06:37 AM

You will need a flyers license if you want to fly as a passenger in the US... thats a bit too police state for me. Passports for entry into another state? International, certainly... coast to coast, personal intrusion.

**Ferris Bueller** · 10-27-2007, 01:53 PM

And where is this info coming from switch?

Buckets · 10-27-2007, 04:07 PM

Well, this thread seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I'll answer the questions anyhow. I'd like to preface this by saying that I don't hate the police but I do think that they are in a position where they can and often do abuse their power and get away with it. Police officers tend to make me feel uneasy, even though the most criminal act I've committed is five miles an hour over the speed limit. The majority of my experience wth police officers has been positive but there have been a few really bad ones that have slanted my opinion. I also live in a county with a corrupt ******* for a Sheriff which doesn't make things any better. With that said, here is your list:

1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25))

26

2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent?

No, I have never been arrested. I was once pulled out of a car for no reason at all and searched by a cop who I feel was a bit too "friendly". I was in High School and a friend was pulled over for speeding. (about ten over.) My friend pulled over right away and was polite to the cop and gave him no reason to treat us the way he did. He walked up to the car screaming and didn't stop until after his backup (which there was absolutely no reason for him to call) showed up and told him to calm down. We were told to get out of the car, searched, yelled at, questioned and then set free. One friend got a seatbelt ticket and the other got dinged for not having his insurance card with him. This event significantly lowered my opinion of the police.

3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops?

I probably wouldn't even say dislike. I'd say I'm wary of cops because they have a lot of power and sometimes abuse it. I also feel that I've been the victim of profiling recently and that doesn't make me feel good. I drive a '97 Dodge Neon. The paint is falling off and I never bother washing the thing anymore because it looks like crap anyhow. I've been pulled over three times in the past six months or so for fabricated reasons. (license plate light twice when it was working and tail light once when it was working.) Once the officers who pulled me over and decided that I probably wasn't a meth dealer, they were courteous to me to varying degrees and gave me repair orders to fix problems that were non-existant which I promptly tore up and threw away. This to me is a huge abuse of power and a very unnecessary inconvenience. A friend of mine who is a retired Phoenix police officer told me that this is a fairly common practice.

I've also seen police officers get preferential treatment in court cases. I don't like the fact that an officer's word holds more weight than a civilian's in court and I don't like that it is pretty much off-limits to attack the credibility of a police officer in court. My girlfriend's sister is actually going through a case right now where the arresting officer (LAPD) has said under oath that he didn't recall a piece of evidence that he recorded in his own police report. Her lawyers won't go after this guy's credibility because they say the judge won't like it. To me, this seems wrong.

Lastly, I hate how vigorously good cops cover for bad ones. This seems to create a sense of immunity from the law for police officers to do as they please because they know they'll get away with it. This makes me feel resentful towards even "good" officers and feel that there really are no good police officers, just bad ones and their accomplices.

4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops?

If I can be somehow convince that the police are held to the same standard under the law that ordinary citizens are, I might feel less distrustful of them. As it stands, I feel like a cop can get away with a lot mroe than any person should and that really bothers me.

5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us?

Get rid of the guys who have a bad attitude, treat everyone with the same sort of respect you hope to be treated with and don't cover for one another when someone does something wrong.

Switch · 10-27-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

And where is this info coming from switch?

The federal ID requirement includes presenting passports for domestic flights if your state does not participate in the federal ID system. It also means visiting federal parks/reserves will hold the same requirement.

That may not be the best link, i just googled for it--- in any case, lets not hijack this any further. My fault for bringing it up.

I'd like to here more from people who have had questionable experiences with the police---

And now, that i've been mulling over this thread, I recall two more questionable experience.

One, with the seat belt arrest. They did a search of my car after I specifically told them not to enter it. There was a five dollar bill and some toll change sitting out on the console between driver passenger. As I was being arrested, one officer said that they'd put it away so it wasn't visible. I said, no thats fine, just leave it. He/she (don't recall) went in, opened the arm rest storage area, undoubtedly to look at whats in side, and then placed the money there. I was very clear that I had said no, and it was very clear that they did it anyway. On the surface this seems like a nice thing to do, assuming I consent to it. But without my consent it amounts to an illegal search of my vehicle. I've never smoked pot in my life, or done any other illicit substance. I don't carry myself as if I do, either. I don't see their probable cause/ reasonable suspicion for a search, nor did they overtly request a search.

Two, I was in high school, driving with one of my friends as a passenger. It was spring time, landscaping trucks were in full swing. One of them had apparently dumped a small pile of mulch in the middle of the road by mistake. I went around it. A minute later I was pulled over for swerving. I told the officer that there was an obstruction in the road and that he should go check it out. He ended up taking the PASSENGER out of the car and patting him down doing a search that included making him take off his shoes. If the officer is pulling me over for swerving, what in the hell is he doing searching my passenger? He also reached into my car to look around (had trash/bottles on the passenger floor, back seat). I asked him directly, "What are you doing, looking for drugs". He responded no. Magnum, did he have any right to search my passenger or touch anything in my car (without requesting to do so)

**CingularDuality** · 10-27-2007, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buckets

I also live in a county with a corrupt ******* for a Sheriff which doesn't make things any better.

Are you serious? You have the absolute best sheriff in the United States!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch

did he have any right to search my passenger or touch anything in my car (without requesting to do so)

I'm pretty sure that the only time your car can be searched on the street is with a warrant, with your consent, or with probable cause (which is what is needed for your arrest). Also, your vehicle can be searched incident to your arrest. So, say you're being arrested for some unpaid speeding tickets, that's not probable cause to search your vehicle, but since they're arresting you, they need to inventory the contents of your vehicle before it's impounded. Anything found in an inventory search incident to arrest is admissible in court.

Oh, and that federal ID thing won't fly unless there's another terrorist attack in the USA.

10-26-2007, 04:42 PM	#48 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,005	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... So what point was I wrong about? __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

10-26-2007, 05:22 PM	#50 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 4,386	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... I cant directly speak for it because I dont know, but I do believe that most law enforcement agencies have rules regarding dereliction of duty and insubordination. On the subject of the civil rights movement, yes, I agree that the government was wrong in all aspects. The laws were wrong, enforcing those laws was wrong, but hindsight is always 20-20 and we have to take into account the fact that there had to be law enforcement officers involved who felt terrible about having to enforce those laws, but still had to to keep their families fed. Not to say that is any kind of ultimate justification, but more a mitigating circumstance. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

10-26-2007, 06:07 PM	#51 (permalink)
Drizzid Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37 Posts: 2,888	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... To anyone who has an issue with officers in general all I can say is until you have walked in their shoes I would be very hesitant to be so quick to criticize. Try putting your life on the line for every minute you are at work and see how you would change. Try putting your life on the line when the odds are stacked against you in most scenarios you will encounter and see how you would handle yourself I have volunteered with a local agency for a brief time as a dispatcher and I will agree that the biggest issue with officers are the ones with the big attitudes. They are usually the ones that become officers for just the adrenaline of being a police officer and not for the love of civic duty. When an officer has a true love of civic duty then you will see it in the way he does his job. When one does it for adrenaline you will see it in the way he handles himself AND the way he does his job. Respect can go a long way for both parties involved __________________ TG-Drizzid Yifios Phoenix (87:55) Marble colony Danetia Menzo (86:55) Wine ColonyII Rayiatia Paradise (87:54) Sulfur

10-26-2007, 10:12 PM	#53 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 39 Posts: 2,130	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... You don't have to go along with a cop to see the underbelly of humanity. You could hang out with the criminals themselves. That's what I did. The drug dealers, the strippers and prostitutes and their "managers". (They don't call themselves pimps in Oklahoma.) Ohhhh and bounty hunters. Now those people are scary. Funny thing is some of them are just as bad, or even worse, than the people they are going after. They are nothing like "Dog the Bounty Hunter" you see on TV. Every single one I knew had a serious meth problem. They bragged about stealing from the people they where rounding up. There was also the time I lived in very bad neighborhoods in Newport News. Here is one little story. About 3 or 4 in the morning I awake to screaming and kids crying. I open the door to the hallway and some big guy is yelling and pounding on the door up the stairs. About a minute late I see the cop lights. I wait but no cop. The guy upstairs is still yelling and screaming and the woman is also. I hear things being thrown or something. Still no cop. He is sitting out in his car. Why? Well I find out later that this particular apartment complex is considered so dangerous that a cop is not "allowed" to enter it by them self. There had to be at least two of them. Considering some of the stuff I saw around there I don't really blame them.* But the fact was I had to go into that place on a daily basis. The apartment complex I was in before was abandoned by the Navy. A shoot out happened right in front of my window. I couldn't see it because of the parked cars but I did hear it nice and loud. A couple of days before that one of my friends was doing laundry and some 14 yr old kid showed him a gun and asked for all his quarters. Two points. You don't have to do a ride along to see the crap a cop sees. Really you just have to be poor or live in the wrong place and you will see plenty. Second is that some people live in the places you only have to patrol. They live there without backup or a vest or gun. I and many of my shipmates lived there because that is where the Navy put us. I never felt like I was in any danger but I knew not to do certain things like walk around after dark. (Oh, and Navy rules prevented us from having fire arms. I had a shotgun but had to keep it in my Scout.) Edit. To be clear I don't know that for a fact. That is what the lady next door told me. A very nice lady, kinda like the grandma of the building. But I do know he didn't get out of the car until two other police arrived. __________________ Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08 --- I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.* - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

10-27-2007, 06:37 AM	#55 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,005	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... You will need a flyers license if you want to fly as a passenger in the US... thats a bit too police state for me. Passports for entry into another state? International, certainly... coast to coast, personal intrusion. __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

10-27-2007, 01:53 PM	#56 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 4,386	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... And where is this info coming from switch? __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

10-27-2007, 04:07 PM	#57 (permalink)
Buckets Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mesa, AZ Age: 27 Posts: 411	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... Well, this thread seems to have taken a turn for the worse. I'll answer the questions anyhow. I'd like to preface this by saying that I don't hate the police but I do think that they are in a position where they can and often do abuse their power and get away with it. Police officers tend to make me feel uneasy, even though the most criminal act I've committed is five miles an hour over the speed limit. The majority of my experience wth police officers has been positive but there have been a few really bad ones that have slanted my opinion. I also live in a county with a corrupt ******* for a Sheriff which doesn't make things any better. With that said, here is your list: 1. how old are you? (it is my belief that the younger crowd is more anti-police (16 to 25)) 26 2. have you ever been arrested? where you innocent? No, I have never been arrested. I was once pulled out of a car for no reason at all and searched by a cop who I feel was a bit too "friendly". I was in High School and a friend was pulled over for speeding. (about ten over.) My friend pulled over right away and was polite to the cop and gave him no reason to treat us the way he did. He walked up to the car screaming and didn't stop until after his backup (which there was absolutely no reason for him to call) showed up and told him to calm down. We were told to get out of the car, searched, yelled at, questioned and then set free. One friend got a seatbelt ticket and the other got dinged for not having his insurance card with him. This event significantly lowered my opinion of the police. 3. why do you hate cops, ok maybe hate is strong, dislike cops? I probably wouldn't even say dislike. I'd say I'm wary of cops because they have a lot of power and sometimes abuse it. I also feel that I've been the victim of profiling recently and that doesn't make me feel good. I drive a '97 Dodge Neon. The paint is falling off and I never bother washing the thing anymore because it looks like crap anyhow. I've been pulled over three times in the past six months or so for fabricated reasons. (license plate light twice when it was working and tail light once when it was working.) Once the officers who pulled me over and decided that I probably wasn't a meth dealer, they were courteous to me to varying degrees and gave me repair orders to fix problems that were non-existant which I promptly tore up and threw away. This to me is a huge abuse of power and a very unnecessary inconvenience. A friend of mine who is a retired Phoenix police officer told me that this is a fairly common practice. I've also seen police officers get preferential treatment in court cases. I don't like the fact that an officer's word holds more weight than a civilian's in court and I don't like that it is pretty much off-limits to attack the credibility of a police officer in court. My girlfriend's sister is actually going through a case right now where the arresting officer (LAPD) has said under oath that he didn't recall a piece of evidence that he recorded in his own police report. Her lawyers won't go after this guy's credibility because they say the judge won't like it. To me, this seems wrong. Lastly, I hate how vigorously good cops cover for bad ones. This seems to create a sense of immunity from the law for police officers to do as they please because they know they'll get away with it. This makes me feel resentful towards even "good" officers and feel that there really are no good police officers, just bad ones and their accomplices. 4. is there any hope for you to change your mind about cops? If I can be somehow convince that the police are held to the same standard under the law that ordinary citizens are, I might feel less distrustful of them. As it stands, I feel like a cop can get away with a lot mroe than any person should and that really bothers me. 5. what, as cops could we do better to make citizens appreciate/like us? Get rid of the guys who have a bad attitude, treat everyone with the same sort of respect you hope to be treated with and don't cover for one another when someone does something wrong. __________________ The artist formerly known as "pecker"

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