Switch

The console was searched on the seat belt warrant... the passenger was searched when I was pulled over for swerving. That was a thorough pat down that included taking his shoes off to search in his shoes. I don't see how theres any probable cause to warrant such a search. The passenger is completely irrelevant when it comes to a stop on a moving violation. They're along for the ride and have absolutely no bearing on my driving and any stop because of my driving has no bearing on them.

Anyway, please don't ascribe to the switch hates cops mentality. Right now I'm just bringing up a legitimate event that has some disputable actions involving legality. I feel like I'm being harassed for bringing this up in a thread thats supposed to be about talking about unpleasant experiences with the police.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Switch

I think almost every single post has been very diligent in NOT painting all cops with the same brush. Everyone has mentioned that their circumstance happens to be one in a handful of police encounters and does not represent each and every cop they've dealt with. In most cases, its just a few of these bad events that sours their view of all police interactions.

I'm not sure where you get off saying that people are 'painting all cops with the same brush'.

Moreover, this thread is supposed to be a place for people to share their view of negative police interactions. If every single post here were ranting about some terrible police incident, you shouldn't be commenting negatively on it. Thats why magnum started this thread, to see what people think.

Now, he's seemed to given up on it for some reason thats not clear to me, but that doesn't mean people cant stop posting in it.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

CingularDuality

You need to read this SCOTUS decision: Terry v. Ohio

Findlaw.com requires free registration now, so go to www.bugmenot.com if you don't want to bother with registering...

Basically, it allows police to frisk anyone for weapons if they have committed or are about to commit a crime and the officer can articulate a suspicion that the suspect may have a weapon.

In your case, the officer stopped you for a traffic violation. That's not in question, is it? It's a legal stop. Now in order to pat you or your passenger down, the officer just needs to be suspicious of you having a weapon. Read up on the legal definition of 'reasonable suspicion'. Here's a link to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_suspicion
and Findlaw: http://dictionary.lp.findlaw.com/scr...able+suspicion

Once you're stopped for suspicion of a crime, you may be frisked for suspicion of a weapon.

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Switch

cant read the link, need a log in.

__________________
|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Switch

I just googled it and read a brief about it. It has absolutely no relevance to what we're discussing. The officer that pulled ME over for a possible moving violation did not spend time observing my passenger behaving suspiciously.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

CingularDuality

I told you that! And I gave you a place to get a login!

FYI, if you use FireFox, BugMeNot has a plugin that will let you login to sites without registering by right-clicking and selecting "login with BugMeNot". It's pretty damn slick...

It doesn't matter. You (and the passenger) were stopped lawfully, right? At that point, the officer just needs to have reasonable suspicion that your passenger is armed, because he was already stopped during the commission of a crime (If it helps, think of him as your accomplice in a traffic violation).

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Switch

The PASSENGER was not stopped in the commission of a crime! He's a PASSENGER

So you're saying that he had reasonable suspicion to search my passengers shoes for weapons?
He also didn't bother to search me for a weapon, but suspected my passenger for some reason?

I have no doubt that his search was completely unwarranted and likely illegal. He was probably searching for drugs. You don't empty someones pockets for a gun. Yes, he went through pockets, I forget to mention. The illegality of his search shows when he declined to peruse the issue of my swerving immediately, not bringing up again after I mentioned the debris in the road.

So he stops me, implicitly concedes that the moving violation did not exist when he does not continue with the topic after acknowledging the debris, then takes the passenger out of the car, frisks him, removes his shoes, and then lets us leave after he's completed his search. He could have let me drive off the moment he acknowledged the dirt in the road. His search was not pertinent to securing his safety. He had no suspicion that we were going to commit a crime. There was no reason to suspect we were armed.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

WhiskeySix

What's happening in this thread is exactly what happens 'out there'.

us vs. them

"he's one of those types"

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Atomic Dog

I was thinking the same thing.

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Magnum50

no, how can I make it any clearer, some of you are reading just what you want.

It was good feedback, and I learned something, but then some of you are describing details that either no ands, ifs, or butts the cop was wrong and illegal at his actions...

but then these same stories aren't giving all the information needed, since we weren't there... if these stories now being discussed did happen, and the cop in question did it repeatedly, I would think before to long he would not be a cop anymore.

there is tons of checks and balances for modern police departments... did you know that the City of Naples, a department of just over 100 officers has 3 internal investigations teams, and 2 outside civilian review panels... thats alot of reviewing and Monday morning quarterbacking, maybe thats why in SW Florida, we are considered one of the most disciplined and respected departments in the area, maybe not.

If these cops are doing this stuff, by all means make a complaint, sure the first 2, 3 or 5 may be files as un-founded, but after a half dozen complaints on one officer someones going to dig further.

We had one officer who got flagged with too many complaints, all un-founded but the software we use flagged him after a certain amount of complaints, so he was pulled from mids for 6 months, placed on days, and reviewed.

this thread was good, but now it's going off track, and yes turning into the us vs them... but it goes both ways folks... and it's time to move on.

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Magnum
www.gettacticaldammit.com

Acreo Aeneas

1. 21 (as verified to the left).

2. No. Yes, I'm innocent.

3. I generally don't dislike cops, but it depends on the approach each officer makes (the first impression). I know I have turned to cops in the past for help numerous times, but some have pulled my parents over and act like my 50 year old parents are going to put up a fight over a ticket.

I remember this one incident where state police pulled my mom and I over for failing to use a turn signal (yet the guy in front of us just ran the stop sign). So we got a ticket for it, even though we did use the turn signal. Now while one officer is talking to my mother, the other stands there with both hands on his hips on my passenger side and gives me this mean look as if I've done something terribly wrong. No I don't think this guy was "green" either. He had what looked to be Sergeant stripes on his sleeve.

Then there are Chicago cops, they're like brick walls sometimes. Sometimes when I approach one they act as if they're "put off" by you. Why? Whatever happened to "to serve and protect"?

4. Like I said, it depends from officer to officer usually. If they can be nice about it (especially to us law-abiding citizens), then I'll be just as nice if not nicer.

5. Try the nice approach before you guys get mean, angry, and dirty. It'll help reflect better on your overall image while at the same time lessen tensions between citizen and enforcement officer. Friendliness and a little personal touch to it goes a long way.

My questions
Why the *cough* hell *cough* doesn't police departments and such conduct yearly surveys of the general populace to help themselves improve (sort of like what you're doing in this thread)? Or did I miss them because we are rarely informed of such things?

Second, if I have problems with a particular officer(s), what can I do about it (beyond the "file a complaint")? Also what about insanely slow "response"? (Case in point, a older woman had an heart attack down the block a few years back, the ambulance took 45 minutes to get to her house! My block is south of the loop.)

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Pickle

I agree and disagree.
I agree because cases of police brutality should be looked into. If a cop gets out of line appropriate measures should be taken. ONe problem though is the plethora of bogus complaints filed.
I disagree about the personally....sort of . We try not to take anything on the job personal. But when your integrity, honesty, and moral fiber are constantly being questioned by people who dislike you for your chosen profession and couldn't do the job you do it does wear on you.


I know what CD is saying about the Terry search. Unless there is information missing from Switch's post I have to side with Switch on this. A Terry search is for weapons only and is only a frisk. Taking off shoes is outside of Terry. Additionally, the officer has to be able to articulate why the person he searched might have had a weapon. A simple car stop does not do that. Perhaps the passenger had a record? Perhaps an innocuous joke about having a grenade launcher in his pants was made ? I don't know.

So you are upset because he had his hands on his hips and gave you a "mean look"?. This has personal implications for me believe it or not. I have a natural scowl. When I am not smiling the corners of my lips turn down and I have been told by numerous people I just looked pissed off. In fact, I have a picture of me and my 5 years old walking hand in hand on the beach in Hawaii this year. I remember the time fondly and I was really enjoying the time I had on the sand with my youngest. I saw a picture of the event and I look like I am about to kill someone, yet, it was truly a very very happy time for me. The implication here is that when I don't try to I apprently look like I am mad. This has been going on since before I was in LE. The moral of the story is that a cop doesn't have to smile and any person can look one way but be feeling another.


The complaint process is exactly the right way to do. Magnum is correct in that multiple complaints will raise flags. You will probably have to just be content knowing that your complaint is just one more nail in the coffin of his career.

And a little OT; New Orleans Police are notorious for being crooked. I make no apologies for them or other crooked cops. I don't know what happened to these cops but I hope they no longer have a job. Video


Obviously this does not bode well for your emergency response system as a whole.

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Kerostasis

I'm probably an unusual case, because I have an overall favorable view of police despite the fact that nearly every contact I've personally had with them has been negative. I guess thats because it seems to me like when a cop is doing a good job, he should be mostly invisible to all the law abiding citizens who aren't doing anything illegal anyway. So all the times I didn't see a policeman at all, or saw one driving down the road and not stopping me, thats a good experience with police.

My favorite negative encounter with the police was on my last night living in California, when I had somehow gathered a small crowd of excitable kids (probably high school seniors) in a parking lot who wanted to watch me demonstrate my (limited) skills with a sword I happened to have with me. Yeah, seems kinda silly in retrospect, but I was having fun, and it was perfectly legal to do in California.

Well, someone who was not part of the excitable crowd saw this happen, got nervous, and called the cops. They showed up after the show was over and I'd already put the sword away back in the trunk of my car. They asked some of the kids in the crowd if theyd seen anything, and all the kids denied having seen anyone with a sword nearby. (That was pretty funny, actually.) I guess someone had given them a description of me at some point though, because they finally made their way to me and asked if I had a sword. I didn't feel like lying, so I said yes, I've got it, and its totally legal for me to have it here. I checked all the relevant California laws before I bought it.

The policeman was not amused by that, but I'm guessing he had not actually read those laws himself and wasn't sure if it was legal or not. He responded with something like "but did you read law number 32451?" Now, I knew what all the relevant laws said, but I hadn't bothered to memorize the numbers, so I asked him what that particular law was and he wouldnt answer. Instead he made me open up the trunk of my car to show him the sword. I decided not to object as long as he didnt try to confiscate it or anything, and reminded him again that it was totally legal for me to have it there. He stared at it for awhile, and finally warned me that if someone were to falsely accuse me of assault with the sword, they might be inclined to believe that person. So I shouldn't bring it here anymore. That seemed like it was somewhere between a really weak logical justification and a veiled threat, but since I was planning to move the next day I didn't make a fuss about it. They finally left me alone and I went home.

I frankly found the whole thing kind of amusing, but it was just on the edge of going south very fast, and I have no idea what I'd have done if he tried to confiscate my sword or something like that.

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Pickle

I had a very negative encounter with the police when I was a kid. I was with some friends who had earlier gone to a business and broken in. I didn't know about it. The building was in an industrial area with an alley in the back. My friend's disappeared and I waited on the loading dock across the alley. Only when I saw the police car drive slowly by did I realize what was going on. They caught my three friends running out the front. The police came and got me and thought I was an accomplice. I wasn't...I was just an extremely naive idiot. I was not treated nicely by the police. I was not a bad kid but that encounter put a bad taste in my mouth twards police. When I got older I realized why I was not treated nicely...they were teaching me a lesson and it worked.


BTW, that officer......is now my sergeant. He loves telling other guys that story.

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Ferris Bueller

Switch, after conferring with a family friend who used to be the Sheriff of Hillsborough County (thats where Tampa, FL is for those that dont know) theres another explanation: it didnt necessarily have to be a weapon he was searching for. When you got pulled over, I'm sure you said something along the lines of "oh crap, im getting pulled over" and your friend whips his head around, looks at the cop and then immediately turns back around. Or maybe he didnt care, and bent down to tie his shoe, or maybe he had a wedgie and shifted noticeably in his seat to get his whitey tighties out from between the cheeks. Any way you slice it, he made a noticeable movement, whereas you, the driver, made normal driving movements and pulled over. His movement gives the officer reasonable suspicion as to what he was moving around so much for. Was he hiding a weapon? Drugs? Who knows. Thats why the search was conducted. It was perfectly legal, I assure you.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller