sordavie

That's what you get for asking a loaded question of this sort.

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CingularDuality

What???? I'd love to know how you think I'm defending any unknown police. I'm explaining the law. If you or Switch don't like it, write your legislator, but don't blame the police!

I think that knowing your rights and where they end would go a LONG way towards improving relations with police. Saying "No, I really don't want to give you consent to search my vehicle." is a lot nicer than "I know my rights and you can't do that." One is simply expressing your wishes, while the other is a challenge.

Oh, and 90% of the time when someone says that they know their rights, they don't.

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Rincewind

90% of the time when someone is talking about rights, they're really talking about privileges.

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WhiskeySix

100% of the time when someone is talking about rights, they're really talking about respect.

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leejo

I don't follow.

TheFeniX

I don't know if you're talking about my comments, but I'd like to expand upon some of my earlier posts:

Being nice and being professional are two separate attitudes.

Using a stern voice or even yelling at someone who is uncooperative isn't in of itself unprofessional. An officer has to be forceful with suspect in at least some point in his career, and that's something I've never taken issue with. What has annoyed me is officers either being extremely rude about it or actually arguing with the suspect. I just don't see the point of that.

I look at it like I handle adminning a TG server. The server isn't the place to argue policy. Rule breakers are asked to stop, if not they are subject to administrative action. Sure, they might get a short quip out of me or another admin, but I refuse to argue with them or become angry and rude about it. Sure, it's not the same thing as I don't have to worry about some punk taking a shot at me, but I lose nothing by staying professional.

Oh, and I've learned from experience, nothing good ever happens after 2am.

Another funny story: Saturday night we went to a bar in Houston for a good friend's birthday. I was driving, so I limited myself to two drinks at about 10:30pm. By the time we left at 2am, Katy was hammered so bad we had to hang around her house for a while to make sure she got to bed all-right... and to wash the vomit off the side of my truck..... ugh...

Anyways, at about 3:30am, we pulled into a WataBurger. Now, normally, I'm nervous in this part of town at this time of night, but seeing 4 cops cars parked out front kind of did away with that feeling.

So, we order some food and pull around to the front window. An officer greets us and asks us where we've been all night. Normally, I might have come off with "around town" or something else that says "none of your business" without being so rude, but I figured I didn't want to deal with the hassle.

The conversation pretty much goes like this:
Officer: "Well, I'd just like you to know that some beer was stolen from a store about two hours ago in a vehicle matching your description. It even had the roll-bar in the back."
Me: "I don't know what to tell you. Did the person mention the Ram-air hood, rally mounted back tire, and oversized tires? Let's be honest here officer, this truck isn't exactly inconspicuous."
Officer: "Well, no. But, you guys have been in Houston for how long?"
Me: "10pm till 2am."
Officer: "Well, I just wanted to let you know. Have a safe drive."

Personally, I think he was just trying to evoke some kind of reaction out of me. I mean, he would have good reason to believe a guy driving to WB at 3am is drunk. So, whatever on that.

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leejo

Lol. Beer thieves? In a big truck? In Texas? You should have asked if they had an all points bulletin out.

"All units, all units, $4.74 of Busch lite was stolen from the Kwik Mart at 59 and Chimney Rock by white people in a truck."

There's no way it could be a coincidence. You did it. Admit it. Case closed.

Kerostasis

Except that according to some other people (Magnum) explaining the same law, what the policeman did there WAS illegal according to what was described. However, rather than assuming the policeman screwed up, you've all decided that there must be a missing piece to the story that explains why he was actually perfectly right all along.

Now, that may indeed be the case. I wasn't there, I wouldn't know. But that still qualifies as "defending unknown police" to me.

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Ferris Bueller

It doesnt qualify as anything. We are given a situation which may or may not be true, with an incomplete and unwitnessed story, and then asked to judge someone's actions based on the sum total of that. Any way anyone wants to look at it, ITS CRAP. Could the frisk and such have been illegal? YES. Could Switch's friend have done something to provoke it? YES. But (and pardon the pun here) with all the good cop-bad cop we have flying around here, nobody can make a straight case either way. Now, if someone wants to ask a similar question where ALL the facts can be laid out for everyone to view, then so be it and we can move from there. But until then, I think everyone needs to remove themselves from the situation.

Everyone knows what theyve said in this thread. There has been badgering and prodding done on both sides of the issue. The guilty parties know who they are. You cant come into a thread like this asking loaded questions against someone you know isnt going to give you the answer you want unless you're trying to pick a fight. BOTH sides are guilty of doing it in this thread. It needs to stop.

Now, as far as slinging accusations, people need to watch themselves. I am not a police officer. I presented a case in which I was unjustly detained and threatened by a police officer who lost his job as a result of his actions. I voiced a clear opinion about both my support for law enforcement and disgust at the way some of its people choose to handle themselves. I have also defended law enforcement officers in this very same thread. I have also done my best to impartially explain the law and how it could be interpreted from both sides to people who have asked questions here, based on the best of my knowledge and experience. No issue is black and white and everyone, even the most cynical among us needs to take a few seconds to realize that before provoking an argument again.

Next time someone, anyone, wants to put a label on anyone, not just me, do your homework and make damn sure you know what youre talking about. All you're doing is asking for people to retaliate and start a fight. We dont do that here. If you'd like to differ on that point, I'll be more than happy to direct you to the boss man, who will clearly tell you that intentionally antagonizing people and disrespecting them is a good way to get into trouble.

Lets reign it in a notch here, Ladies and Gentlemen, get control of ourselves and conduct things in a manner befitting this community.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

TheFeniX

I don't drink beer. Yes, I know it sounds insane: A Texan not drinking beer. But it's true.

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Switch

Chip against authority, absolutely. If you're in any position of power or authority, I will be highly critical of you performance. One, I am entitled to be. Two, I am REQUIRED to be if I expect the position to remain sincere to the public trust. Being highly critical doesn't mean being negatively critical. I am equally likely to commend someone who does a good job. This thread, however, was started with the intent of exposing bad situations, so don't judge me when thats all you hear.

Smart ass trouble maker? If I expect police officers (or anyone for that matter) to do their job within the limits of their power, I hope that doesn't make me a smart ass trouble maker. If it does, I suppose I'll accept it. I tend to see this as more of an issue with particular officers not wanting to be inconvenienced by policy or law while they do their job. Moreover, taking an attitude that I'm the trouble maker and now I must be treated that way is very representative of the problem many people in this thread have pointed out.

I've had as many good experiences (probably a few more even) than bad. The problem is that even if you make it 80/20 good to bad, that 20% is completely unacceptable. I'm an average middle class white college aged man that lives in a good area. I believe I receive the LEAST amount of prejudice at any given time. I can't imagine how it is for minorities or poor people living in bad parts of town where police are extremely aggressive (not commenting on whether or not that is warranted, I don't know those areas).

I'm sorry if anyones offended with what I've said in this thread thus far, and I do acknowledges that there have been some begrudged concessions to what I've said, but I'm still the one under fire here by particular people that are loathed to say that police can make mistakes or even intentionally do wrong.

Now, to explain a little more. I'm not one to simply piss and moan. I've defended myself in court for various traffic related tickets that I thought were total BS. I've won outright on several occasions and had the offense plea bargained down on others. The problems with authority that I've seen with patrol officers do not stop on the street. On one occasion, while at a court house, I asked a police officer where I had to go to speak to the prosecutor before trial. His response to me, almost directly quoted (as i remember it very well since it was so offensive and unprofessional) was, "This isn't monopoly land kid, that's not how it works." Thats a prime example of the disrespect certain individuals show to civilians, and the good/honest cops should be just as angry about it as the citizens who experience it. Now, the police aren't the only violators. Eventually I did see a prosecutor who immediately offered me a plea bargain. I refused and maintained my innocence. The prosecutor said that since I refused the plea bargain that she would find me guilty and give me the maximum penalty.

During my time in front of the judge I told him that I refused a plea bargain because I was innocent and then quoted the prosecutors threat. The judge was immediately furious and said that it was HE that would find me guilty or innocent and decide the appropriate punishment. The case was dismissed shortly thereafter. Thank god for good judges!

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Switch

While reviewing the thread I realized it grew so fast that I missed a few posts, so excuse me for that -- thats where the 'you're not reading what we're saying is coming from. I just read the pickle agree with switch comment page.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

[tR]Greasy_mullet

I got nothing but respect. My only issue is the whole traffic stop issue but I understand that they are just enforcing the laws and also that those stops result in a high number of legit arrests to help them patrol.

So as I said, nothing but respect for them all.

marstein

Amazing. That's like thens of thousands of taxpayer dollars wasted. At my daughters school we get hit every day with begging for money for art, science, sports, whatever. They don't have enough money to clean the toilets! And then this.

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warcriminal2

I’m sorry but I think more cops practice un-necessary and sometimes abusive tactics during vehicle stops than you or any department would ever admit to. About a year ago I was at my friend’s house warming party and ended up meeting a nice couple and was talking to them for a while. Turns out, the wife was a Santa Clara (bay area California) police officer. I don’t want to paint her as a bad cop or anything because she only confirmed what I already thought, and that’s that cops totally profile drivers and then use any reason they can think of to pull them over and investigate them further. She goes on to tell me how she, and other cops in her department would often look for vehicles that would be considered "a beater" or crappy car and how 9/10 times when its a Hispanic driver the chances were good if they pull the car over they would find one of the following, drivers license suspended or no DL at all, no insurance, or had not registered the car yet because the tags had not expired. Once uncovering one or more of these violations they would search the driver and the vehicle and more often than not, find drugs, paraphernalia, weapons, or something good enough to "Justify" the bogus traffic stop in the first place. The entire thing stinks if you ask me.

This also happened to a good friend down in LA only he difference was he is white and he wasn’t driving a beater Here’s what happened; LAPD pulled him over for no apparent reason, did a full on felony stop on him. I’ve known this guy since 4th grade he had never been in ANY trouble with the cops and had no criminal record and had never been arrested. ...come to think of it I don’t think this guy has ever even smoked pot..but anyways, after the cops had him "Detained for their safety" they go ahead and search his car without any probable cause. Unfortunately for my friend he got into the habit of carrying a loaded firearm, in a case, under his seat because he would often deliver high-end cars that he sold to customers around SoCal so he carried his gun with him because of all the carjackings that go on in LA….I know his rationale for carrying the gun doesn’t matter much once they found it because he was BUSTED but he said the 2 cops had to totally back track and had a hard time explaining why they stopped him in the first place or why the felony stop or why the search but that wasn’t enough to stop cops from charging him with a felony for the concealed weapon. He got his lawyer, paid a crap load of money to fight the charge and was eventually successful in getting the charges reduced down to a misdemeanor and plead out because he didn’t want to spend another 10k for his lawyer. Bottom line here, gun or no gun, those cops violated his rights, took his property, arrested him, and did it all under the premise of a bogus traffic stop.

Like I said, this stuff happens alot more than you or any police department would ever admit to. Cops might be able to pull it off "legally" but its definately not right...like I said...the whole thing stinks but hey...we wouldnt want to take any "tools you use to do your job" or anything.

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Warcriminal
chillin n' killin wit authoritaaaaa!!