Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... - Page 9

warcriminal2 · 10-30-2007, 03:39 AM

Marstein...this was in Las Gatos. Im sure youve heard of it

**CingularDuality** · 10-30-2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Except that according to some other people (Magnum) explaining the same law, what the policeman did there WAS illegal according to what was described. However, rather than assuming the policeman screwed up, you've all decided that there must be a missing piece to the story that explains why he was actually perfectly right all along.

Now, that may indeed be the case. I wasn't there, I wouldn't know. But that still qualifies as "defending unknown police" to me.

How do you figure? I've not once said that the search was legal or illegal. I've merely outlined the limits of a legal search.

Hell, I have no idea whether the search was legal or not. There's WAY too much information missing for me to answer that question. With what information we've been given, it could still go either way.

As for the highlighted phrase, well, I think that says a lot about the difference in our perspectives. You're damn right that I won't assume that a police officer is screwed up instead of someone that has a criminal record or even just a bunch of run-ins with the police. I also won't assume that there aren't bad cops, or even that the cop we're discussing isn't dirty. I try not to assume anything, but, as it is for everyone, total objectivity is difficult, if not impossible.

Bommando · 10-30-2007, 06:50 AM

Age: 29.

I've probably been exposed to police 4 times in my life. Mostly where they were helping me and once for a RBT where I was clean.

The question in this thread doesn't really apply to me, since I've never had any problems, but I'll add one observation from an Australian: I am intrigued by the concept of the traffic stop. This almost never happens here. You will not get your car searched for anything other than an obvious, visible breach. If you are speeding, they give you a ticket and wave you on your way. You pretty much need to have an open box of sale-quantity drugs lying in the back seat before a search will take place. So, I am curious to ask the LEOs here: Why the frequent random checks? I feel like this seems to be a major cause of dissent towards the cops, where any party could be subjected seemingly at random to suspicion. I too might develop some kind of disdain for the cops if I were to be searched multiple times. No matter how you phrase it, people will always feel nervous in those circumstances, even when innocent.

Here in Australia, contact with cops is very rare and even people who have regular contact don't have a hard time of it. There just seem to be less excuses to arrest people here. We have legal injecting rooms for drug addicts, so the habit is taken off the street, regulated and monitored with the appropriate medical supervision. Prostitution is legal and again, monitored and kept in check. There is a branded condom van which drives around to all the strip joints and brothels, dropping off free product to make sure people stay safe. I live in a busy area right near the CBD and despite the frequent action nearby, there seems to be a very controlled and unobtrusive police presence. From what I observe, police here don't bother themselves with crimes of small-scale drug possession / use and instead concentrate on quelling violent crime and monitoring drunken revelers, which seems to me to be a better use of resources. It seems to be keeping me safe anyway.

**CingularDuality** · 10-30-2007, 07:02 AM

Well, that's the problem. In America, we have a few victimless crimes that get a LOT of police attention. Mostly drugs and prostitution. The whole random check thing is not really common here at all. But if a cop pulls someone over for speeding and smells pot, or recognizes the passenger, or otherwise feels that something isn't right, he'll often do more than just issue a ticket.

Again, despite our discussions here, it's rare.

What is a RBT and a CBD?

**Magnum50** · 10-30-2007, 07:36 AM

for the 100th time, go back and read my threads Mr. Highlighter and Switch... in almost every thread I said "if that is the facts then the stop was illegal and the cop was out of line", something to that effect...

Why are we continuing this thread, it served it's purpose on the first 2 pages then went way wrong from then on.

Bommando · 10-30-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

The whole random check thing is not really common here at all. But if a cop pulls someone over for speeding and smells pot, or recognizes the passenger, or otherwise feels that something isn't right, he'll often do more than just issue a ticket.

Again, despite our discussions here, it's rare.

OK, I got the impression searches were fairly common for young people and anyone out late at night. I was just going by what I was reading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

What is a RBT and a CBD?

RBT = Random Breath Test (for alcohol, not halitosis

)
CBD = Central Business District (the city centre)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

Why are we continuing this thread, it served it's purpose on the first 2 pages then went way wrong from then on.

Some people are just keeping the discussion going based on their experiences and opinions. When you ask for only those with bad experiences to comment, the thread isn't really destined to be a positive one. I know it's hard not to take it personally, but it's worth reading to get an insight IMO.

As the thread starter, I am sure if you asked, the thread could be locked.

**Magnum50** · 10-30-2007, 08:06 AM

I'm not going to ask to lock it, that would fuel the "conspirators", lol... but it's the same thing over and over in the last 5 pages... I would think everyone would get bored and move on.

mentholated · 10-30-2007, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMJ

Wow, the hostility against someone just trying to do their job astounds me. Just as a tip, if you get pulled over in MA and you refuse to show your DL, you are going to go to jail and you will have no recourse against the officer or the department. We don't have access to other state's RMV/DMV records so we will have no idea if you are a licensed driver.

To the masses, I suggest you call your local PD and surrounding PD's and ask them if they allow civilians to do ride-a-longs. It will give you a better appreciation of what the police do and might open your eyes a bit. My only recommendation is to stay away from riding with a traffic cop, because that crap will absolutely bore you to death

If this thread does get locked (and I see no reason why it should be *cough* magnum *cough*) I would just like to say I learned a lot from it. Thanks guys.

I said ID, not DL. I don't drive. Though, I am planning on getting a motorcycle license soon. And of course I would show my drivers license if pulled over. You need to read the posts you quote.

Kerostasis · 10-30-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

How do you figure? I've not once said that the search was legal or illegal. I've merely outlined the limits of a legal search.

Hell, I have no idea whether the search was legal or not. There's WAY too much information missing for me to answer that question. With what information we've been given, it could still go either way.

As for the highlighted phrase, well, I think that says a lot about the difference in our perspectives. You're damn right that I won't assume that a police officer is screwed up instead of someone that has a criminal record or even just a bunch of run-ins with the police. I also won't assume that there aren't bad cops, or even that the cop we're discussing isn't dirty. I try not to assume anything, but, as it is for everyone, total objectivity is difficult, if not impossible.

Wow, think you've got enough bolding there, or should I add some more? I wasn't telling you I thought the policeman screwed up. I would have thought the "I wasn't there, I wouldn't know" disclaimer would have made that clearer. I was just presenting it as a potential possibility, since the tone of your previous comments seemed to dismiss that possibility out of hand. And I think THAT says a lot about our difference in perspectives. But I'm glad you've decided upon further retrospection that "it could still go either way".

Hambergler · 10-30-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Well, that's the problem. In America, we have a few victimless crimes that get a LOT of police attention. Mostly drugs and prostitution. The whole random check thing is not really common here at all. But if a cop pulls someone over for speeding and smells pot, or recognizes the passenger, or otherwise feels that something isn't right, he'll often do more than just issue a ticket.

Again, despite our discussions here, it's rare.

1 in 133 people in America are living in prison.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm

**leejo** · 10-30-2007, 12:15 PM

I don't understand your point.

**CingularDuality** · 10-30-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Wow, think you've got enough bolding there, or should I add some more? I wasn't telling you I thought the policeman screwed up. I would have thought the "I wasn't there, I wouldn't know" disclaimer would have made that clearer. I was just presenting it as a potential possibility, since the tone of your previous comments seemed to dismiss that possibility out of hand. And I think THAT says a lot about our difference in perspectives. But I'm glad you've decided upon further retrospection that "it could still go either way".

I really wish you would point out where I implied that it couldn't still go either way.

And I highlighted that to illustrate the point that you would have me, or anyone else, assume that the cop is bad, and that's just silly. But many people today, especially in the inner cities, believe exactly that way. You have no idea how frustrating it is to hear parents tell their kids, "You better watch out, the po-po is here" when I walk in to a McDonalds with some buddies that are in uniform.

It's obvious that Switch didn't have a clue about search and seizure laws before this thread. I just hope that he now understands his rights a bit more.

Switch · 10-30-2007, 05:13 PM

I think I had a pretty good clue. I don't contend incident to arrest. Otherwise, without probably cause you cannot search a vehicle and without suspicion that you can clearly articulate you cannot search an individual. What I've learned is how easy it is to fabricate an excuse for a search or extend something like a terry frisk beyond its intended boundary because of a hunch or an individuals/suspects lack of respect towards an officers authority.

Pickle · 10-30-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekyE

But, I can without a doubt, note the way every obvious police officer in this thread is grouping up and getting offended, along with doing their best to defend unknown police in stories and discredit anyone with a negative opinion of law enforcement at all.

I am not offended. I am also not trying to discredit anyone. I think we are just showing there are three sides to every story. 1. His side 2. Their side 3. The truth

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekyE

All I can say is that in my opinion, this thread has either incredibly failed magnums original intentions (to improve police relations?), or was simply a trap looking to group "police haters" up for a good tounge lashing. I have to wonder why anyone would ask a question like "why do you HATE (insert anything important here)?" and expect a pleasant response?

I think we have all known Magnum enough to know that is not the case

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekyE

I havent read any responses to the suggestions to improve relations with citizens, so I wonder what the real intent of this thread is. Does any subject involving any form of HATE belong at TG?

When TG becomes a religion of love I will agree with this statement.

I have other thoughts but am short on time.

Switch · 10-30-2007, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnum50

I'm not going to ask to lock it, that would fuel the "conspirators", lol... but it's the same thing over and over in the last 5 pages... I would think everyone would get bored and move on.

I just noticed this post

You trivialize the issues you brought up by calling people who post bad experiences 'conspirators'. Are you trying to say that these are nominal gripes thats are not representative of a much larger whole? This is a MAJOR issue for a large segment of the American population that has to deal with poor police practices on a daily basis; the poor, the minority, the young. No one is saying that every officer is bad. What people are saying is that bad officers and bad practices are ubiquitous. In some cases entire departments might appear to be bad (as in the case of Brett Darrow, as linked by grunt in his post on the first page) and in better areas entire departments appear to be stellar. Whats more common is to have a decent department with its bad apples, and however few they may be, they will always leave a stronger and longer taste than good cops that are simply doing their job as they should be done.

Of all the police posting, I think you're taking this thread to heart the most. Its my guess that several other people have had poor experiences that they don't want to bring up simply not to anger you or ruin their reputation in the eyes of the officers on this forum. While posters here may be bringing heat on the police that they encountered, you're responding with veiled aggression towards people for simply having the bad experience and not prostrating themselves to the righteousness of johnny law.

You tried disavowing yourself from any further involvement of the post saying that you got all the information you needed, but you didn't really get any information at that point, it seemed more like you didn't want to hear any more anti-cop sentiment. This thread would really have to develop for quite a bit longer before you could assess several peoples bad experiences and opinions to come to any meaningful conclusions. I mean, if showing respect and not being discourteous is some kind of revelation for you, then we're all in big trouble.

If you'd like, I can post for you some very pleasant experiences I've had. I can also post a few more not so great ones for you to analyze. This whole thread has really made me stop to think about my past experiences closely and I can recall several occasions officers were completely decent, respectful and still doing things I didnt like -- ie giving me a ticket -- but I had no grudge of it.

10-30-2007, 03:39 AM	#121 (permalink)
warcriminal2 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: norCAL Posts: 181	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... Marstein...this was in Las Gatos. Im sure youve heard of it __________________ Warcriminal chillin n' killin wit authoritaaaaa!!

10-30-2007, 06:50 AM	#123 (permalink)
Bommando Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Age: 29 Posts: 4,294	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... Age: 29. I've probably been exposed to police 4 times in my life. Mostly where they were helping me and once for a RBT where I was clean. The question in this thread doesn't really apply to me, since I've never had any problems, but I'll add one observation from an Australian: I am intrigued by the concept of the traffic stop. This almost never happens here. You will not get your car searched for anything other than an obvious, visible breach. If you are speeding, they give you a ticket and wave you on your way. You pretty much need to have an open box of sale-quantity drugs lying in the back seat before a search will take place. So, I am curious to ask the LEOs here: Why the frequent random checks? I feel like this seems to be a major cause of dissent towards the cops, where any party could be subjected seemingly at random to suspicion. I too might develop some kind of disdain for the cops if I were to be searched multiple times. No matter how you phrase it, people will always feel nervous in those circumstances, even when innocent. Here in Australia, contact with cops is very rare and even people who have regular contact don't have a hard time of it. There just seem to be less excuses to arrest people here. We have legal injecting rooms for drug addicts, so the habit is taken off the street, regulated and monitored with the appropriate medical supervision. Prostitution is legal and again, monitored and kept in check. There is a branded condom van which drives around to all the strip joints and brothels, dropping off free product to make sure people stay safe. I live in a busy area right near the CBD and despite the frequent action nearby, there seems to be a very controlled and unobtrusive police presence. From what I observe, police here don't bother themselves with crimes of small-scale drug possession / use and instead concentrate on quelling violent crime and monitoring drunken revelers, which seems to me to be a better use of resources. It seems to be keeping me safe anyway.

10-30-2007, 07:02 AM	#124 (permalink)
CingularDuality Join Date: May 2003 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth area of Texas, USA Age: 33 Posts: 16,605	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... Well, that's the problem. In America, we have a few victimless crimes that get a LOT of police attention. Mostly drugs and prostitution. The whole random check thing is not really common here at all. But if a cop pulls someone over for speeding and smells pot, or recognizes the passenger, or otherwise feels that something isn't right, he'll often do more than just issue a ticket. Again, despite our discussions here, it's rare. What is a RBT and a CBD? __________________ Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market! Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage." TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

10-30-2007, 07:36 AM	#125 (permalink)
Magnum50 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples, Florida USA Age: 42 Posts: 3,707	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... for the 100th time, go back and read my threads Mr. Highlighter and Switch... in almost every thread I said "if that is the facts then the stop was illegal and the cop was out of line", something to that effect... Why are we continuing this thread, it served it's purpose on the first 2 pages then went way wrong from then on. __________________ Magnum www.gettacticaldammit.com

10-30-2007, 08:06 AM	#127 (permalink)
Magnum50 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Naples, Florida USA Age: 42 Posts: 3,707	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... I'm not going to ask to lock it, that would fuel the "conspirators", lol... but it's the same thing over and over in the last 5 pages... I would think everyone would get bored and move on. __________________ Magnum www.gettacticaldammit.com

10-30-2007, 12:15 PM	#131 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,514	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... I don't understand your point.

10-30-2007, 05:13 PM	#133 (permalink)
Switch Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 1,137	Re: Ok, why do YOU hate the cops... I think I had a pretty good clue. I don't contend incident to arrest. Otherwise, without probably cause you cannot search a vehicle and without suspicion that you can clearly articulate you cannot search an individual. What I've learned is how easy it is to fabricate an excuse for a search or extend something like a terry frisk beyond its intended boundary because of a hunch or an individuals/suspects lack of respect towards an officers authority. __________________ \|TG\|Switch Better known as: That noob who crashed the chopper. That noob who ran over the mine. That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle. That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

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