Bush - most hated US president - Page 5

xanathemax · 11-15-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

So I take it, then, that you lived through the Great Depression? Since the previous poster clearly doesn't "understand" what it takes to recover from such a crisis, and neither do I - and presumably neither do you! - let us ask someone who not only lived through the Great Depression, but whom actually 'aided the recovery' while working in the Roosevelt Administration during the 1930s:

Still not even scratching near 'Worst President Ever' territory - FDR did after all stave off a potential domestic rebellion, foresaw conflict with and defeated the Japanese and Germans, and kept morale high. Pretty momentous stuff, all of it. He clearly had more influence than any other 20th century president - the Bretton Woods Conference alone was incredibly beneficial, paving the way for the world's massive post war expansion.

Please get over your Friedman fellating already. He's seriously all you ever quote/mention.

Kerostasis · 11-15-2007, 04:39 PM

He's a good economist. Should we stop quoting good sources of knowledge because you're sick of what they have to say?

**CingularDuality** · 11-15-2007, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gillespie

You can extract the same information from a prisoner through non-invasive measures. Once a prisoner's been broken, the information flows freely. Something as simple as sensory deprivation can break a person's mental capabilities down.

A tactic utilized by the KGB was the very simple process of disrupting the body's biological clock; take a windowless cell and turn the lights on and off at random times for random durations.

Dude, that's torture.

Beatnik · 11-15-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Well, its good to know you've moved on from assuming everything I say comes from Fox News to assuming I've just made it up, since both are about equally true.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

I suppose you also believe that Bush and the CIA operated Gitmo for years and years without obtaining a single piece of useful information, and stubbornly believed that if they just kept it up for a few more months, someone would finally crack?

"Notoriously unreliable" does not equal "not a single piece of useful information". Notoriously unreliable means that when you get information from torture, which you assuredly will, it's exceedingly difficult to know what's actual truth and what's told just to get the alligator clips removed from his balls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

But while you probably did call torture "morally obscene", that wasn't actually what I was referring to. I referred to the twice-in-two-posts declaration that the US had "lost all moral highground" against the terrorists who are actively trying to kill our civilians. If thats not "trying to morally equate us with Al-Qaeda", then I'd love to hear your description of what it is.

How do you cast your war against 'evildoers' when you in fact practice the evil? How do you maintain the moral highground then? By making sure we're two steps less abhorant than our enemy? That description that I used was reflecting the fact that we've abandoned all international definitions of torture as described in various treaties. And in doing so confirm the worst thoughts/perceptions others have of us (and yes, embolden the enemies), and actually create new terrorists and/or enemies.

And then there are the (growing numbers of) people like yourself, who argue that torture isn't morally reprehensible, and in fact reasonable and even useful. How exactly does that preserve our moral highground?

**BigGaayAl** · 11-15-2007, 07:35 PM

In general as an inhabitant of "old Europe" I would have to agree that Bush probably is the worst president in American history. Starting wars of expansion is one of the worst things any leader can do. I believe no one has done this to Bush's extent. I always thought of Iraq as Poland.

The hatred against Bush is very surprising. I always forget, but Beatnik reminded me of an important aspect that I lost sight of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatnik

I strongly disapprove of him flushing the good will of the world post-9/11 down the toilet by invading Iraq.

Bush had an incredible amount of worldwide support on 12/11. Near global support, even when going in to Afghanistan. But then he started a unilateral war. With one swipe he flushed the core of the international treaty's down the toilet.

No American president has done so much damage abroad, and to the international institutions.

xTYBALTx · 11-15-2007, 07:55 PM

L.B.J.??

Probably my pick for worst ever...

**BigGaayAl** · 11-15-2007, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

L.B.J.??

Probably my pick for worst ever...

Heh you are right, what do I know about all the dead ones? Nearly nothing. For Belgium it would be easy: King Leopold II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold_II_of_Belgium

xTYBALTx · 11-15-2007, 08:39 PM

Yes, I remember him from my high school and university history courses. Quite the fellow!

It's rather funny that you should mention him in response to LBJ though: The book Heart of Darkness details King Leopold's Congo colony - and was later adapted into a film based in LBJ's Vietnam war (Apocalypse Now).

One degree of separation!

xanathemax · 11-16-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

He's a good economist. Should we stop quoting good sources of knowledge because you're sick of what they have to say?

*looks at global warming thread*

Gator762FMJ · 11-20-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFatKidDeath

The American public simply chose the worst of the bad options.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

I voted for President Bush in 2000. And I can tell you that we did NOT get even remotely close to what was expected.

I expected a dim witted person, sure, but that's a plus in my book. Smart politicians try to "do stuff," which generally leads to disaster. For reference please see Kennedy, Johnson - Vietnam, domestic policy and Nixon - Vietnam, domestic policy. All three were quite bright (well, at least Kennedy and Nixon were, not sure about Johnson) and all of them enacted numerous ruinous policies. Additionally, every minute spent campaigning is one less minute spent doing "stuff," which in my book is great. If politicians did literally nothing but campaign, I'd be stoked.

So in any event - Bush ran on a platform, in 2000, of no nation building, lowering taxes, lowering spending, and less intrusive federal government.

Did I get what was advertised?

Gold written here. For our #1 seat of power, I'll take an average intelligence man over a "smart", self-serving man with personal agendas.

I put smart in quotes, since I'm not all that sold on Kerry being particularly smart. It's tragic how so many of us will just point fingers to the other side, when our current Republican and Democratic parties suck. Kinda like saying you won, because your left eye got poked out, while the other guy lost his right eye. Just keep saying party X is wrong, and Y is just so so right, and our ****ty leadership will never end. We need reform in BOTH parties. A third party would be nice, but I'm being realistic.

Bagheera · 11-25-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardianx11x

The real problem is Texas. I think it is in America's best interest to never allow a Texan in office ever again. Anyone who is raised with state pride over national pride should not be granted the power of the executive.

I couldn't agree more. You're spot on here.

ScratchMonkey · 11-26-2007, 09:56 AM

Isn't Bush from New Hampshire? I thought the Texas thing was a facade to make him seem a populist "good ol' boy".

If the objective is to avoid a candidate who'll pay back his campaign supporters with Federal largess, then elect an anti-Federalist candidate, like Paul. But most voters are looking for bread and circuses, and will vote for the candidate with the brownest lips.

Beatnik · 11-26-2007, 10:27 AM

He's from Connecticut but likes to play cowboy.

**SloppyJoe** · 11-26-2007, 09:39 PM

"Homeland security"

What a freakin' joke. All the lead from China and illegals flowing in like a river and we gotta wait 4 hours in line at the airport?

I wonder if Bush considered that the poorer this country gets the harder it is going to be to secure it and the more apathetic the population is going to be in helping. Of course apathy is good if you are trying to rape your own country and want to get away with it. America is quickly becoming a used up cheap whore under his command, but the sad part is most American's are either too busy working or the product of a worsening education system that we're willing to watch it go down like that. I include myself in that because I'm just trying to get by as it is. That's why we elect representatives, who are supposed to do that work for us (and get rich in the process). If it were easy to fire the lot of them I'm sure it'd be done by now but of course self interest in the "public servant" offices has pretty much made it so you have to get caught homosexually raping a minor in the back seat of a ford bronco before you might get in trouble. Anything short of that , disrupting global stability, bullying allies, raping your own country, stealing elections, whatever, might raise some eyebrows.

I've only been around since Carter, but by far IMO this dude is the worst. But I'll give him one thing. He's got massive huevos (even though he probably doesn't know where they are). That's one thing that really gets me, is while he's doing god knows what, no other politicians are putting him on the chopping block, which IMO is 10 times worse.

I say give Bush 4 more years! Because it isn't him that's screwing up, it everyone with the power to do something about it that is. And instead of tucking tails waiting for a new president, we should allow more terms in office as proper incentive to remove Krusty the Clowns from office and take action rather than weathering the storms. Politicians can easily shell up for 4 years, or even 8, and wait for a swing back in their favor. Us regular Joes don't have offshore accounts and visas to other countries and have to feel the brunt of it. Ever since I was a kid, it's been like seasons, good season, bad season, but now it's like with global warming, the bad seasons are getting worse and more destructive.

**BigGaayAl** · 11-27-2007, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gator762FMJ

Gold written here. For our #1 seat of power, I'll take an average intelligence man over a "smart", self-serving man with personal agendas.

I've been thinking about your statement, and Tybalt's. I think this is why Bush was elected. I think this was a disastrous mistake.

I understand the reasoning, it has a certain logic, but it has one huge phallacy. While Bush is too dumb do do much good or bad, the people around him are not. The world has suffered for 8 years as a result.

I think it is best to go with the intelligent/philosophical type, that is always in neurotic doubt about everything. This kind of person, with a scholarly attitude will do less and think more.

Bush's stupidity allows him to do lots and think not. He always just "knows" the right(eous) course. He is always 100% sure.

You show me a man without doubt, I'll show you a dangerous man.

.

11-15-2007, 07:55 PM	#66 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,851	Re: Bush - most hated US president L.B.J.?? Probably my pick for worst ever... __________________ Current good song: Justice - Stress "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

11-15-2007, 08:39 PM	#68 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,851	Re: Bush - most hated US president Yes, I remember him from my high school and university history courses. Quite the fellow! It's rather funny that you should mention him in response to LBJ though: The book Heart of Darkness details King Leopold's Congo colony - and was later adapted into a film based in LBJ's Vietnam war (Apocalypse Now). One degree of separation! __________________ Current good song: Justice - Stress "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

11-26-2007, 09:56 AM	#72 (permalink)
ScratchMonkey Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Pablo, California Posts: 4,240	Re: Bush - most hated US president Isn't Bush from New Hampshire? I thought the Texas thing was a facade to make him seem a populist "good ol' boy". If the objective is to avoid a candidate who'll pay back his campaign supporters with Federal largess, then elect an anti-Federalist candidate, like Paul. But most voters are looking for bread and circuses, and will vote for the candidate with the brownest lips.

11-26-2007, 10:27 AM	#73 (permalink)
Beatnik Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Age: 33 Posts: 4,322	Re: Bush - most hated US president He's from Connecticut but likes to play cowboy. __________________ -F- Beatnik

11-26-2007, 09:39 PM	#74 (permalink)
SloppyJoe Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bay Area, California Posts: 2,210	Re: Bush - most hated US president "Homeland security" What a freakin' joke. All the lead from China and illegals flowing in like a river and we gotta wait 4 hours in line at the airport? I wonder if Bush considered that the poorer this country gets the harder it is going to be to secure it and the more apathetic the population is going to be in helping. Of course apathy is good if you are trying to rape your own country and want to get away with it. America is quickly becoming a used up cheap whore under his command, but the sad part is most American's are either too busy working or the product of a worsening education system that we're willing to watch it go down like that. I include myself in that because I'm just trying to get by as it is. That's why we elect representatives, who are supposed to do that work for us (and get rich in the process). If it were easy to fire the lot of them I'm sure it'd be done by now but of course self interest in the "public servant" offices has pretty much made it so you have to get caught homosexually raping a minor in the back seat of a ford bronco before you might get in trouble. Anything short of that , disrupting global stability, bullying allies, raping your own country, stealing elections, whatever, might raise some eyebrows. I've only been around since Carter, but by far IMO this dude is the worst. But I'll give him one thing. He's got massive huevos (even though he probably doesn't know where they are). That's one thing that really gets me, is while he's doing god knows what, no other politicians are putting him on the chopping block, which IMO is 10 times worse. I say give Bush 4 more years! Because it isn't him that's screwing up, it everyone with the power to do something about it that is. And instead of tucking tails waiting for a new president, we should allow more terms in office as proper incentive to remove Krusty the Clowns from office and take action rather than weathering the storms. Politicians can easily shell up for 4 years, or even 8, and wait for a swing back in their favor. Us regular Joes don't have offshore accounts and visas to other countries and have to feel the brunt of it. Ever since I was a kid, it's been like seasons, good season, bad season, but now it's like with global warming, the bad seasons are getting worse and more destructive. __________________ . Serving the [4th Force Recon] since June 2007 [Game rules, announcements, and SOPs ][ Armed Assault ][ Counter-Strike Source ][ Call of Duty ] "The success of what we do depends upon people valuing the team over themselves." - Wulfyn

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