MDFubar

I am not sure that I would agree as far as him being the Most hated president, but he sure is up there. Yes, hes has done a lot of things that we all do not agree wiht, but also remember that he is not the most powerful person in our government. Cangress and Senate have much more power than he does and he really can't even wipe his ass without thier approval.
I voted for him twice, the second time was more for the fact that he was the least of two evils. I do not agree with alot of his policies and actions, but we have to live with it..for another year.
Remember that the press has a very big influence on what and how people think because too many people beilieve whatever they report.
I would like to say that, I my time.......I think the best President was Ronald Reagan.

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xTYBALTx

Yes, you certainly have a good point, but my problem with this is that we've had some extremely intelligent presidents who enacted extremely ruinous policies - such as Nixon, considered one of the most intelligent and intellectual of all US presidents, whom gave us the wonderous little War on Drugs.

Kennedy and Clinton were by all accounts extremely intelligent, and Kennedy especially well grounded. But Kennedy started the US in the Vietnam War, which cost 40,000 lives (of course, he also full-scale averted nuclear war in the Cuban Missile crisis, so thank you Mr. Kennedy!!! And LBJ may mostly be to blame for Vietnam.), while Clinton's wildly successful terms in office may have been caused more by an opposition congressional majority than his own doing.

Crappy as Bush has been, I don't think he's been as bad as Nixon. Of course, LBJ was by all accounts not very bright, and he's right up there with the worst of all time as well.

Maybe there's neither rhyme nor reason to it.

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A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

tHa_KhAn

Don't forget Al Gore was secretly inventing the internet and thus they are directly responsible for the .com/internet boom that boosted the tech sector. I think Bill spent his weekends in Redmond, putting the final touches on Windows 95.

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AMosely

Don't forget that a President is also defined by his administration. In Bush's case, his administration has been marred many times by embarassing personnel failures. Tenet, Rumsfeld, Libby, Mike 'heckuva job' Brown, Ashcroft, the Meirs nomination, and most recently Alberto Gonzalez. Add in Dick Cheney's 30-year crusade for executive priviledge and secrecy, throwing sand in the face of American checks-and-balances government, and you have very strong case for an extrodinarily flawed president and presidency. As an American citizen, I feel personally offended by the actions of this administration, both at home and abroad. I'd say that to the president himself if I had the chance (I did send two letters, for what it is worth. They were not responded to). And to think that the country will be in a full-blown recession as Bush leaves office. So much for saying it's all about the economy.

On a lighter note, did anyone notice that Gore met with Bush yesterday in the Oval Office? The topic was global warming. I could write at least five different sketches for SNL on that meeting..

Beatnik

Clinton > Bush.

Then again, Wet Chalupa Fart in a Ziploc Bag > Bush.

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Steeler

I always seem to check up on this thread at exactly the right moment.

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tHa_KhAn

The only thing missing is this thread is detailed personal experience claims why life is so different under this administration and any prior. In general most supremely negative comments so far are nothing but recycled headlines/hype from various media outlets. I just think most people could give better reasons than the ones you see in most media outlets.

The biggest gripe on personal life is gas prices. While they do suck, I think people have again given Bush and his administration too much credit when comes to the responsibility for the price of oil. In my personal life I did not see a spike in gas prices until Katrina. Which was roughly 2 years after storming into Iraq. For me at least Gas prices never actually went back to normal and only continued their usual creep. Unrest in middle east has always caused fluctuations in prices. To suggest the only unrest in the middle east is the US presence is also silly. Iran's president has made some claims that make the whole area nervous, Iran's Nuclear issue/non-issue, Lebanon vs. Israel, Palestinians vs. Palestinians vs. Israel, Turks vs Kurds, etc, etc. I in no way mean distract the severity of the Iraq issue, I am merely pointing out there are a great many other issues that have nothing or little to do with any US policy enacted under the Bush Administration. Most of the issues I have listed have been going on for many years, decades, even centuries. Every time they flare up there is going to be some type of unrest which leads to a fluctuation in prices. Is the Iraq conflict making the situation worse, most certainly, but it is not the only cause. Even if every faction in the middle east are laid down their arms and started getting a long gas prices in the US would not return to pre-katrina prices, at least not in any express fashion.

The people who do credit the Bush administration with all the worlds problems really give the man and his buddies too much credit. I mean evidently they could mastermind a plot to bring down the WTC without leaving tons evidence, create and control hurricanes on demand, and get Satan to pony up on a favor and suck the soul out of a black woman. All that was easy, but speaking, spelling, and simple foreign policy isn't? Seriously, though congress flipped control to the other party and things haven't gotten any better. So there really is more wrong than just one man and his cabinet. The major spike in gas prices came after a natural disaster, at least in my part of the US, and that is what I most affected by.

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Zoopy

I'm sure if Michael Moore or the Daily Show didn't exist then no one would really hate Bush (as much).

AMosely

Primarily because on most legislation they can't override his veto. He's even vetoing bills that he previously claimed to support, like S-chip funding and the water resources bill (though congress was able to override that one). It's not even a two-way street.

Beatnik

edit: nevermind

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MDFubar

It never has and never will be. The biggest problem I have with someone bringing up a specific bill and the fact that it was vetoed or someone didn't vote for it, is the reason behind the decision.
I mean, they report that John voted against a gun control bill.......that's it. What they don't tell you is that it had three loop-holes in it and that there where 4 riders sucking money for something that has nothing to do with this bill.
All I ask is that before you judge the outcome of a bill, understand the entire bill.

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tHa_KhAn

That was my point everyone says life is bad under Bush, yet outside of gas prices, not many reasons are given and too much of that blame is misguided.

There are enough checks and balances in our system that if the entire congress (the people's representatives) wanted to pass a bill it could be passed. In my high school government class the veto wasn't the final stop for a bill that had enough support. Based on the participation % of many votes in both the house and senate it becomes more obvious that if a particular bill were important enough to affect a politicians reelection it become law. Which leads me back to my suggestion that there is more wrong with our government than just who is in the executive branch.

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with expressing an opinion that Bush part Deux is the worst of all time. I just wish more people would cite reasons that affect their everyday life as opposed to over used anti-bush head lines. I mean I normally would say anti-republican, but how can anyone not vote for one of the up and coming republican candidates? We'll either have government subsidized visits to brothels or Chuck Norris providing border security. Yes a sad state of politics when Porn Stars and Round House kicks to the face are considered endorsements. Then again what's really wrong with either of those?

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Ndarg

Khan my friend, while I understand your point, I think a huge piece is missing from what you are saying here. A great many lives are being or have drastically been effected because of Bush/and his administrations policies. A great many families have lost fathers, daughtes, familily members, friends as a direct result of a policy that came straight from his cabinet and was run through a GUTLESS Congress that did not even want to take time to debate if a war was even necessary.

I hear a lot of the same rehtoric about this war being a war on terror yet have never heard any real proof, or strong argument from anyone as to why Iraq was essential on the war on terrorism. This war was forced down everyone's throats and based on misguided and false evidence to make it "palitable" and if you dared to stand up against it you were called unamerican, unpatriotic, or sympathetic to the terrorist when then real terrorists were in and STILL ARE in Afgahnastan. I support our troops, hell I have family that has been flying mission after mission both in Iraq and Afgahnastan, and thankfully he has come home every time, but there are thousands upon thousand of families whose lives have been directly and adverstly affected by direct policies of this administration over this war.

And long time no talk buddy, I need to hook up with you some time soon, shoot me an email when you might be online next.

El_Gringo_Grande

Mine is simple. I see power concentrating in the executive branch. I see the executive branch embracing, nay, actively pursuing that power. This power is granted under very broad definitions. This power potentially lessens my freedoms.

One example:
Enemy combatant seems to be anybody they don't like. Enemy combatants don't have any rights whatsoever. Enemy combatants can be tortured. They can be taken to another country without any Judaical oversight.

Any group which can influence my life and seeks power makes me very unhappy thus makes my life bad. I would rather be poor with choices than rich with no choices.

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I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

Kerostasis

Correction -- An Enemy Combatant seems to be any non-citizen they don't like. Sure, that still leaves a fairly wide area open to potential abuse, but the vast majority of the American populace is pretty damn safe from that.

Also, while I'd agree the Executive is seeking more power, most of the power they are trying to get is being taken from the Legislative Branch, not from the citizens. Citizens very rarely lose power directly to the Executive, it almost always passes through the Legislative first.

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