MagnaCentipede

__________________

Kerostasis

Hah, nice! Where can I get one of these iTase BRO units?

__________________

Sirusblk

Eventually everyone will be installed with a microchip that not only carries all your personal information including credit card numbers, pin numbers, and social security numbers, but it will also deliver a mild electrical shock that will put anybody down into a violent submission.

Cops no longer have to ask you for your drivers license they'll find it, and shock you to death in the process, yay for advances in modern science!

__________________

MagnaCentipede

Why so many numbers? You need only one Freedom number.
Mild? You're helping terrorists with that sort of adjective.
They won't need to stop you. They'll just order your car to drive you to the nearest Tolerance Center.

__________________

Azura

The way things are going now I wouldn't b surprised if they arm police with "Sock'em Boppers." Oddly enough, police brutality statistics will still be rising, wonder how that can be with an inflatable glove?

__________________

Tarenth

Obviously they'd have to hit the perp repeatedly to bring them down and against people with high pain tolerance due to drugs and alcohol it'll also take more officers to down them.

Heh...Youtube video of 5 cops beating on someone with sock'um boppers as people cry 'police brutality'. ^_^

__________________
My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

TheFeniX

To try and get things back on topic, I'm going to post this link from somewhere close to home.

I mean, I've been a bit slow on getting my license and proof of insurance our of my wallet, but never in my life have I seen an officer get this irritated about it. I'm glad to see the department apologized it, but any officer should realize that a person questioning "why" isn't a challenge to his authority. My only real concern is what the officer might have use to disable the person if he didn't have a taser.

I do take issue with the comment "Snelling gets out of the car with his hands up while O’Connor continues to yell at him who eventually tasers him for no reason and calls for backup." The officer DID have a reason, it was just a piss-poor one. I also take issue with the grammar structure of the sentence, but that's another issue all together.

__________________

tHa_KhAn

When Tasers were first brought into my county, the sheriff's deputies were the first with them. The reason the police department followed suit is after the deputies' liberal use of tasers, the criminal element in the county became much more cooperative and respectful when deputies were present. You'd have to talk to individual departments about it, but I would imagine that was true for many agencies. The local police would receive a "F*** You" then a foot chase, where the deputies got a "Yes, sir." and cooperation. Did it change every situation? No, but it changed enough that the police started carrying them.

__________________

Sirusblk

Wow, thanks for contributing the video, a sad incident though. What really gets me is when the officer yells at him to fetch the drivers license and registration and get out of the car at the same time. Also I don't understand why the cop couldn't have talked to Snelling after he's already on the ground. O'Connar was after all accountable for his actions, why not explain them? Not that he really had anything to explain for obviously...

I hope at the very least, O'Connar got put on probation for that. If not I have a serious problem with that.

__________________

Sirusblk

See sorry I don't believe that. I'll be as compliant as possible, albeit a bit flustered in such a situation. If I got tased for no reason you better believe I'd be pissed off like hell at the officer. I would probably say "F*** You!" to the officer while getting tased, obviously I wouldn't be putting up a fight but I'll be damned if I'm not pissed off.

I think compliance isn't born out of fear but respect, that's the way it should be. If I can expect to be tased every time I get pulled over you better believe I'll say "F*** you" to the officer. If I can count on an officer treating me with respect and dignity I'll give him or her all of it back in return and then some.

__________________

TheFeniX

Police work is a lot easier when you don't have to worry about niceties like procedure or basic human rights. Many countries that don't have the benefit of a Bill of Rights will generally have much less crime, because let's face it, when you have to worry about a cop beating you to death for the smallest crime, you tend to do whatever they say.

I've seen video of police work in Russia. That's some scary stuff right there. The Russian "SWAT" team busts some drug dealers, then proceed to beat them with kicks and batons to the head (essentially deadly force) when the suspects are in handcuffs. Now, these guys were some hardcore "bad guys" who probably deserve some righteous punishment, but that isn't an (American) officer's job. His/her job is to catch law breakers and bring them in so the court system can hand down punishment.

Are these people saying "Yes, sir" because they generally respect officers on the beat, or are they saying it because they're afraid of the consequences? I shouldn't have to fear an officer unless I'm a legitimate law-breaker, and breaking a minor traffic law or generally not kissing an officer's ass does not put me in that category.

My main issue is that officers don't understand that some people are just normal people, with no real concept of exactly what to do when accosted by a uniformed police officer. When was the last time you saw this taught in Driver's Ed? It causes a panic issue when demands are made and the person is given an unrealistic amount of time to respond to those demands. Then the situation is escalated further, so while the person is still thinking about trying to get their ID out or just to assess the situation, they're now even further confused when new demands are being forced on them.

Rookie police officer's go through this same problem. It was referred to as "condition white" in our CHL class. The situation has escalated so fast to a point that the person's brain essentially shuts down and they become either completely oblivious to the inherent dangers of the situation or so confused they literally cannot act. That's what I saw in this video.

Veteran military and police have enough experience and training to break through this condition and act when a threat is present. These are especially dangerous people (not in a bad sense), not because of how good they can shoot or because of how well they can wrestle/fight. It's because they can act at a moments notice of danger. It's essentially a reflex.

So, the one person is these situations who should be counted on to understand exactly what's going on is the officer. When you can't count on him to remain calm and professional, the situation can unwind incredibly fast (as it did in the video I posted). People rely on officers for this kind of support, and when it's not there it creates a major aura of fear.

I've seen this fear in effect (at times when I didn't believe it was warranted) and it can make people do incredibly stupid things they may not have considered before the stress was put on them.

__________________

mentholated

Use common sense?.. He wasn't threatening anybody, and he obviously didn't understand english. Would you tell the same thing you just said to border guards? The guy probably didn't even know what a taser is.. I haven't watched the video yet, but I can guess if I had been in an airport for 10 hours in a strange place where I couldn't understand a single word.. I'd probably be throwing stools around too. Did he try to hurt anyone, security included? Well, I'll see after I watch it.

I was just about to submit but then I realized something about my border guard comment. People crossing the border illegally.. how often are they shot to death for "refusing to comply?" If anyone knows, that is. I'll do some googling. That relates to this discussion in the following way:

If a person is crossing the border illegally, and is observed and approached by a border guard, assuming there is no weapon being displayed by the person crossing the border, what justification is there for the border guard to open fire on said person? I don't see any. Similarly, there is no justification whatsoever on using ANY force, at all, against someone who is not aggressive. Force compliance techniques usually CAUSE a situation to escalate into one where the person being detained (legally or illegally) is forced to resort to resisting arrest forcefully. If more LEOs took this into account, there would probably be a lot less of them losing their badges and serving prison time. I was recently reading an article in american cop magazine about how it is an officer's responsibility to receive ongoing firearm training, yet a lot of them don't, and go through their entire careers without ever even drawing their weapon..

If there is such a lax attitude towards firearm training, I have serious questions about what training is available regarding any use of force, especially tasers. Just because something is non-lethal, doesn't mean it can't contribute and indirectly cause a death.

CingularDuality

That's because you're not a scumbag repeat offender. If you don't think that known criminals should be treated differently than you are, than how do you think they should be treated? Should we get rid of our justice system altogether? Detaining people violates their rights, after all...
I believe that you are trying to make a point by saying that, but I don't believe that you are being honest in doing so. I don't think you would face off against the police in a foreign airport and begin throwing things because you can't figure out where to go. I believe that you would do the same thing I would, that you would follow everyone else off the plane and to your luggage, all the while looking for someone that can help you.

Care to answer my question?

It happens. Anyone that refuses to comply with "Drop the rock or I'll shoot" will probably be shot.

Now you are suggesting that our criminal justice system be thrown out the window, too? A key tenet is giving our police the authority to use the force necessary to effect an arrest. If they couldn't do that, what part of our justice system would still work?

__________________

Become a supporting member! -- Shop at the Tactical Market!

Take the world's smallest political quiz! "I was touched by His Noodly Appendage."
TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

TheFeniX

The 4th amendment is clear that it protect a person from "unreasonable" search and seizure. It would be reasonable for an officer to detain someone in the commission of a crime or if there might be a crime committed in the near future.

__________________

tHa_KhAn

That's the point. If you a law abiding citizen, generally you are going to be more respectful of officers. Career criminals aren't going to have that respect and cause more issues with resisting arrest or just creating a more tense situation. If the taser forces more respect from the individuals that would normally never show it, then it is an effective device even without any use.

I also don't see why so many people don't just take their ticket, and dispute it in court if they have a problem. Or just give a calm "No" to a search request. If you've done nothing wrong, prove it the right way and make the officer look bad. The whole soap box "I have my rights, you jerk!" thing is senseless and not helpful to anyone. I've been pulled over twice in my neighborhood this last year. Annoying to say the least because there was no reason either time. Just stereotyping/profiling I guess. However, I was pleasant even cracked a joke when they took my ID and asked where I was going and where I lived. I didn't bow down and kiss his butt, but I didn't get bent out of shape and in doing so gave them no reason to give me any kind of ticket, warning, or search. Most traffic stops start our a little tense, but by the end of all mine I'm usually having a good time with the officer and thus have little problems. Usually if you treat them with the respect they deserve for the job they do or at the very least treat them as human they have no need to get bent out of shape. There have been times that I have gotten hassled and given IMHO an unnecessary citation. In those time I just shut up, give short concise answers(Yes and No) and again give them no reason to escalate the situation. I personally don't want to end up on one of these Taser videos just to prove a point. I know nothing I say about my rights at the time is going to change anything at that moment. If the officer is already being irrational, trying to add a dose of logic isn't going to help. Move on and do things the right way so it makes the officer look even worse if you really believe you did nothing wrong.

__________________