I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! - Page 2

**leejo** · 09-11-2004, 02:54 PM

There hasn't been a single Kerry supporter in this thread, nor has anyone offered up their idea of a good candidate other than President Bush, but sure enough, here comes the trash talk.

If you don't like the current situation, come up with something more constructive than staying home and pouting, or at least have the maturity to pout in silence.

edit: on second though, by all means feel free to stay home on election day. That'll show 'em! Take a bold stand for nothing. Make a poster about it! Post snotty crap in forums and show folks how smart you are.

There are folks who consider it their duty to vote, since so many have died to secure and protect the right. But yes, we all have the right to stay home and not vote as long as other people are willing to die to protect us. Let's hope whoever other people elect is willing to give the order.

**leejo** · 09-11-2004, 03:21 PM

Pish, I've seen your cute Bush avatar and read your posts. You can put a little winky next to anything I've posted if it makes you feel better.

But by all means do exercise your right to stay home on election day smart guy.

**USN_Squid** · 09-11-2004, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal

Back on track, I stand by the post saying people have the right to not vote. I firmly believe it is a viable option [IF] the government realizes why we are not voting. Let's not be close minded enough to think that we have to sway her to vote for a Democrat or a Republican, there are other options.

Holding your vote hostage won't do anything. The politicians don't care if you don't vote. Hell, it'll make it easier on them. They can just get all their special interest buddies to vote and your vote on the couch won't mean dick. In reality your vote doesn't get counted anyway, except so the party that lost can say the other guy stole the election. The electoral college elects our Presidents, so why not try and sway the delegates in your state rather than just abstaining?

Already a good 50% of the population don't vote. What's 51% gonna do? And that's Millions of people staying home just to change that percentage a little bit. I think the better option is to go vote for some unknown third or fourth party that will make the Big Two take notice and adjust their policies.

Having said that, I don't think this point in history is a good time for it. IMHO we are at war and we need to stand behind a war time President that has so far prevented another attack on our homeland.

edit:
i curnt spel

**CingularDuality** · 09-11-2004, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal

We proved the methods don't work when Gore got more votes than Bush, yet Bush won.

The methods worked fine, just not the way some ignorant people wanted them to work... We are a republic of individual states, not one single state. That's important to remember.

**CingularDuality** · 09-11-2004, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal

I understand that but we are the united states, and when those united states vote on a per person basis and agree that one man should be in charge that man should be in charge. Not "this state is worth more than that state" kind of decision making. I don't think the methods work. That is just saying that our representatives knew better than we the people did. They corrected what would have been our mistake.
I think this is one of the major reasons for my disdain over current political methodology. It is no longer "for the people" but "for the person".

So you think that state's rights should take a back seat to our federal government? If that's your opinion, that's fine, but the US Constitution was written specifically to prevent the federal government from becoming too powerful. Personally, I think that state's rights are being eroded more and more every day and I'm tired of seeing it...

**leejo** · 09-11-2004, 08:50 PM

According to the constitution, states select electors, who select the president. The constitution leaves the selection process entirely up to the states. Today, they all use popular elections to select electors, but many used to do it through their legislatures. If a state wanted to let the fattest man or the best yodeler pick its electors, then that would be its prerogative.

If by "we" you mean all the states get together to select the president, then that's the way it is and that's the way it worked in the last election. If by "we" you mean eligible voters, there has never been a system in this country in which a direct popular election decided a national leader.

So to answer your question "should that (a popular election) be superceded by what the representatives of the states say" the short answer is "yes".

**leejo** · 09-11-2004, 08:56 PM

Still waiting for some pro Kerry (or nader or anyone other than Bush) chatter out there.

**leejo** · 09-11-2004, 10:09 PM

No I'm not waiting to pounce. When luna started this thread she asked people to lay out a positive case for the candidate of their choice. I've already done that on pg. 1 of the thread. If you want to make a case for Kerry or anyone else that isn't based on your thoughts on Bush but rather their qualifications, I for one won't pouce.

**luna** · 09-11-2004, 10:59 PM

I started this thread in an attempt to remove all of the mudslinging and have folks here tell me why they are voting for their candidate. So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that?

**phyllis** · 09-11-2004, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that?

There isn't one ?

...that's my conclusion....

but I'm watching... :

eternal

leejo

eternal

leejo

eternal

leejo

eternal

**CingularDuality** · 09-11-2004, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that?

I think it's because Senator Kerry is weak on the issues that matter to most people... Yes, President Bush is less than desirable to a LOT of people for a few different reasons, but do those reasons stand up to the strong leadership that he has shown on some of the most important concerns that our nation has? That's what you have to decide.

I have changed my mind and will be voting to re-elect President Bush for precisely this reason. I was going to vote for a third candidate, but I've decided not to vote against a wartime president.

Geisha · 09-12-2004, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

I started this thread in an attempt to remove all of the mudslinging and have folks here tell me why they are voting for their candidate. So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that?

I'm still making my way through all the 3rd party summaries on that cool page someone posted in the Sandbox earlier (think it was Cing, but if it was somone else I apologize for not giving proper credit):
http://www.vote-smart.org/election_p...party_name=All
That NPAT, while not comprehensive, is still a decentish lineup for those candidates (or perhaps party officials) that filled it out. I'm kinda disappointed that the Prohibition Party didn't fill it out, now I'm going to have to find their website to find out if that's really referring to alcohol!!

Yikes!

As for the Kerry thing, a lot of people I know in Illinois are saying they want to vote for Kerry as the most likely person to oust Bush. Rural Illinois is apparently largely Democratic, but conservative Democratic because of gun laws. Chicago is generally Democratic all over the spectrum. On the few occasions I talk with people at work--or mostly just listen so I don't piss anyone off with my own views--every one has talked mostly about how much they hate Bush for XXX reason. I've tried to bring up my personal reasons for finding a third party I prefer to support, and why voting for the best match to your views is never a waste. But for these people, a third party vote IS actually a wasted vote because they don't care about electing Kerry, just unelecting Bush; ergo they're supporting the most likely opponent.

I'm not trying to add to candidate bashing, honest! But it seems that this is how the election is going this year. It's all about how you feel about Bush, really, and how you feel about Kerry doesn't matter so much. Have you noticed that, sucking out all the mudslinging, even in this forum the political wars are generally based on what Bush does or doesn't do and the assumption that Kerry will mostly do the opposite (unless it's a no-brainer that 99% of Americans agree on anyway)?

On a side note, my husband brought up a great point in our various conversations: we both think that it's not really necessary to personally like the President, as long as you think he's an EFFECTIVE President that will support what you feel is important. As an example I can think that Bush is a stupid-sounding hick or that Kerry looks like a big dork, but if I think they'll do the right thing and that their diplomatic representatives are sufficiently charismatic to do their job well, it doesn't really matter what I think of the President personally. Clinton was a sleaze, JFK was a sleaze, Teddy Roosevelt was something of a slob; but if they and/or their staffs do good work, their personalities matter a lot less.

**=DdogG=** · 09-12-2004, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geisha

On a side note, my husband brought up a great point in our various conversations: we both think that it's not really necessary to personally like the President, as long as you think he's an EFFECTIVE President that will support what you feel is important. As an example I can think that Bush is a stupid-sounding hick or that Kerry looks like a big dork, but if I think they'll do the right thing and that their diplomatic representatives are sufficiently charismatic to do their job well, it doesn't really matter what I think of the President personally. Clinton was a sleaze, JFK was a sleaze, Teddy Roosevelt was something of a slob; but if they and/or their staffs do good work, their personalities matter a lot less.

hammer meet head..... head meet hammer..... hey no need to hit!

its the work that comes out of the office, not the person under the desk, that makes a good president.

Wintermute · 09-14-2004, 06:27 PM

RE: not voting, I feel it is my duty to vote and intend to vote in every general election I can. If I wanted to register my protest and not vote for any candidate I would spoil my ballot to show that I could actually be bothered to go to the polling station.

**Pokerface** · 09-14-2004, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

I started this thread in an attempt to remove all of the mudslinging and have folks here tell me why they are voting for their candidate. So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that?

Boy I've thought long and hard on this... and MY answer to your question is that "I can't think of any." That won't change my vote in November however.

In my mind, Bush just messed up on too many fronts to continue as the head of the nation. Were he the CEO of a publicly traded company, I as a shareholder would vote to have him removed from his position, in which case whatever guy was next in line would step up and try to correct the problems the first guy created. For me, that's VERY analagous to the current presidential situation; my vote for Kerry is more or less a vote to replace Bush (as opposed to a pro-Kerry stance). To me, in four years, Bush just hasn't impressed me enough with his good points, and has downright scared me with his bad points.

I don't think I can sway you towards Kerry if you're not as displeased as I am with our current president.

09-11-2004, 02:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! There hasn't been a single Kerry supporter in this thread, nor has anyone offered up their idea of a good candidate other than President Bush, but sure enough, here comes the trash talk. If you don't like the current situation, come up with something more constructive than staying home and pouting, or at least have the maturity to pout in silence. edit: on second though, by all means feel free to stay home on election day. That'll show 'em! Take a bold stand for nothing. Make a poster about it! Post snotty crap in forums and show folks how smart you are. There are folks who consider it their duty to vote, since so many have died to secure and protect the right. But yes, we all have the right to stay home and not vote as long as other people are willing to die to protect us. Let's hope whoever other people elect is willing to give the order.

09-11-2004, 03:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! Pish, I've seen your cute Bush avatar and read your posts. You can put a little winky next to anything I've posted if it makes you feel better. But by all means do exercise your right to stay home on election day smart guy.

09-11-2004, 08:50 PM	#21 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! According to the constitution, states select electors, who select the president. The constitution leaves the selection process entirely up to the states. Today, they all use popular elections to select electors, but many used to do it through their legislatures. If a state wanted to let the fattest man or the best yodeler pick its electors, then that would be its prerogative. If by "we" you mean all the states get together to select the president, then that's the way it is and that's the way it worked in the last election. If by "we" you mean eligible voters, there has never been a system in this country in which a direct popular election decided a national leader. So to answer your question "should that (a popular election) be superceded by what the representatives of the states say" the short answer is "yes".

09-11-2004, 08:56 PM	#22 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! Still waiting for some pro Kerry (or nader or anyone other than Bush) chatter out there.

09-11-2004, 10:09 PM	#23 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! No I'm not waiting to pounce. When luna started this thread she asked people to lay out a positive case for the candidate of their choice. I've already done that on pg. 1 of the thread. If you want to make a case for Kerry or anyone else that isn't based on your thoughts on Bush but rather their qualifications, I for one won't pouce. Last edited by leejo; 09-11-2004 at 10:53 PM.

09-11-2004, 10:59 PM	#24 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! I started this thread in an attempt to remove all of the mudslinging and have folks here tell me why they are voting for their candidate. So far, no one has bothered to give me even one decent reason to vote Kerry. Why is that? __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

09-14-2004, 06:27 PM	#29 (permalink)
Wintermute Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Age: 24 Posts: 1,166	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! RE: not voting, I feel it is my duty to vote and intend to vote in every general election I can. If I wanted to register my protest and not vote for any candidate I would spoil my ballot to show that I could actually be bothered to go to the polling station. __________________ Wintermute Play EVE online. It's like being an accounting addict in space. www.MakePovertyHistory.com

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