I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! - Page 5

**DudeMan** · 09-22-2004, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Because eventually, the perception of being a global bully who ignores the will of an international group (THE international group, really) will catch up with us.

but it isnt international and tuning on those who have already helped you and supported you will only swap allies, the only difference being the allies you then have will not help when WHEN another terror attack hits.

because lets face it its going to happen, and it is nothing to do with the Bush war as terror attacks came before him.

**DudeMan** · 09-22-2004, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

No, I think it's a byproduct of the fear bullies instill. And I think terrorist cells are a byproduct too.

really well the 9/11 attacks were not brought about by a bully american president, they were brought about by idiots throwing their toys out of the pram because they didnt get enough attention. which was all before Bush, so why has it magically changed because we kicked some terrorist ass. truth is it hasnt, but we do have support from other nations which were going sour,

dont play down the achievements,

**DudeMan** · 09-22-2004, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

Actually "we" didn't do that our pals in Europe did. I see terrorism as the bastard grandchild of European colonialism. Some are happy to let the USA take all the blame and do all the work, others are helping to shoulder the load.

sorry leejo you are wrong, millitant muslim christian and other religions have been going around since the birth of religion, if you wish to throw your broad paintbrush at everyone else, then please direct it properly.

religion is the real problem with most wars, and religion is the instigator of many.

**luna** · 09-22-2004, 10:21 PM

Religious extremism, to be specific. If you deeply believe it is god's devine will that you slaughter people, regardless of your religion, you will likely do as "god" tells you.

**leejo** · 09-23-2004, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudeMan

sorry leejo you are wrong, millitant muslim christian and other religions have been going around since the birth of religion, if you wish to throw your broad paintbrush at everyone else, then please direct it properly.

religion is the real problem with most wars, and religion is the instigator of many.

I disagree. What were the religious instigators with WWI and WWII? Or WWIII (the cold war)? There were none.

The middle east was rearranged and mashed together at the end of WWI as it suited the colonial powers and as those colonial powers withdrew from the region. In their wake have been a steady diet of regimes who have looted the region and betrayed their people. THAT is the root of mess we're cleaning up now.

Yes there are religious nuts everywhere, but this is much larger than that. I will grant that in the middle east's case, islam and politics have become entertwined, but I think that if they weren't islamic there would be some other cataylst like communism or fascism. Something would galvanize that region and get them stirring, it just happens to be religion in this case. Think Germany between WWI and WWII - beaten down, depressed, angry.

**=DdogG=** · 09-23-2004, 01:46 PM

wwii was christianity... hitler saw a passion play and wanted to kill the jews for killing his God. its hard to send a letter to someone and tell them to come to your country so you can kill them, so, he had to go to them (I know that isnt what happened, but this was the reason behind a lot of hitler's motives with the jews, and the jews were half the was for him.

**leejo** · 09-23-2004, 02:38 PM

WWII wasn't about Christianity at all!! Hitler may have had a nutty preoccupation with Jews, but Germany didn't follow him to shove Jesus down people's throats. They wanted to establish the Third Reich.

Germany's goals and motivations in WWII were highly secular. Similarly, Japan couldn't have given a rat's ass about the jews or Jesus or the beliefs of the people they invaded. It was a power-grab.

**DudeMan** · 09-24-2004, 07:48 PM

oh ffs leejo what are you talking about, hitler's hatred of the jewish was not a byproduct of war. and The USA were part of the treaty of versailles which imposed harsh restrictions on the germans.

Hitlers war was about exactly religions, only good aryian Christian People were considered the better race, andy Jewish person was dirt BEcause THEY WERE JEWISH.

And you have the nerve to blaim the cold war on european expansion and also terrorism... man that is drivle.. first of all the cold war was a pissing contest between the United States of America and Russia. niether of those two fall into Europe. and if it wasnt for a clearly Religiously driven ww2 there would be no stalin in Berlin.

that war was about you and ussr not Europe.

second of all terrorism is a more related to that cold war than anything elsew because of the fighting between russia and you guys,...if you remember that every majour conflict you have had since 1940 has been armed and supplied by russia.

ak47s and t80s ring any bells.

and accusing europeans of their dastedly deads starting terror is also a bit rich comming from a nation that proveeded to boot native americans off their land for their own capitalist ways.

dont be so dismissive of your own american faults in this because the3re are many.

**CingularDuality** · 09-24-2004, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Quote:

Originally Posted by =luna=

I might, if you told me about a 3rd candidate that I would stand behind. SWAY ME!

Interesting Q&A on Slashdot with Mr. Badnarik.

Ummm, yeah....

So, did anyone read this Q&A? What did you think?

**phyllis** · 09-24-2004, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

So, did anyone read this Q&A? What did you think?

Reading it so far, I loveeeeee this :

Quote:

We could argue all day about whether Bush or Kerry is the "lesser evil." The fact is that they both support the war in Iraq. They both oppose gun rights. They both supported the PATRIOT Act. They both support the war on drugs. They both support confiscatory taxation. They both support ruinously high levels of spending, huge deficits and increasing debt.

It's hard to tell them apart on the real issues. They spend their time scrapping over "swing votes" in the gray area of the "center" -- which means, in practice, "how do I not make too many people too angry to vote for me?" That's no way to do politics. Politics, in my view, should be as unimportant as possible -- but where it's important, it has to value freedom, remain rooted in principle and be forward-looking.

All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil. If you don't like the way things are, how do you change it by voting for more of the same?

bold emphasis mine

**Pokerface** · 09-26-2004, 10:21 PM

The day a third party candidate polls at 33% is the day that I'll start looking seriously at third party candidates. Until then, I say unto all potential third party candidates: "screw your ideaology and register as a damn Democrat or Republican so you'll get on the stupid ticket, so you can at least get into the room to argue what you believe in."

**CingularDuality** · 09-26-2004, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

The day a third party candidate polls at 33% is the day that I'll start looking seriously at third party candidates. Until then, I say unto all potential third party candidates: "screw your ideaology and register as a damn Democrat or Republican so you'll get on the stupid ticket, so you can at least get into the room to argue what you believe in."

I'm sure you've heard it before, and I know that it's a vicious circle, but it's attitudes like this that will prevent a third party candidate from ever polling at 33%... I can relate, however...

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 08:20 AM

I didn't say "Win an Election"... I said "poll".

If enough people are willing to throw their lot behind a candidate in a pre-election poll, then I'll start taking notice. Heck, Perot caught my eye for a while there.

**CingularDuality** · 09-27-2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

I didn't say "Win an Election"... I said "poll".

If enough people are willing to throw their lot behind a candidate in a pre-election poll, then I'll start taking notice. Heck, Perot caught my eye for a while there.

Ummm, I never said "win an election" either...

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Ummm, I never said "win an election" either...

I know. Believe it or not, I wasn't coming down on you... I was just clarifying my position. Probably shoulda edited the first one, but hindsight, as they say, bites you in the ass.

09-22-2004, 10:21 PM	#64 (permalink)
luna Join Date: May 2003 Location: Rhode Island Age: 30 Posts: 4,136	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! Religious extremism, to be specific. If you deeply believe it is god's devine will that you slaughter people, regardless of your religion, you will likely do as "god" tells you. __________________ Resurgent's New Motivational Motto: "Now train harder! Live inside your character! If it dies, YOU DIE! Focus!" Jesus had a soulstone.

09-23-2004, 01:46 PM	#66 (permalink)
=DdogG= Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ennis, TX Age: 31 Posts: 1,773	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! wwii was christianity... hitler saw a passion play and wanted to kill the jews for killing his God. its hard to send a letter to someone and tell them to come to your country so you can kill them, so, he had to go to them (I know that isnt what happened, but this was the reason behind a lot of hitler's motives with the jews, and the jews were half the was for him. __________________ Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. -Harlan Ellison If all else fails: "rm -rf /"

09-23-2004, 02:38 PM	#67 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! WWII wasn't about Christianity at all!! Hitler may have had a nutty preoccupation with Jews, but Germany didn't follow him to shove Jesus down people's throats. They wanted to establish the Third Reich. Germany's goals and motivations in WWII were highly secular. Similarly, Japan couldn't have given a rat's ass about the jews or Jesus or the beliefs of the people they invaded. It was a power-grab.

09-24-2004, 07:48 PM	#68 (permalink)
DudeMan Join Date: May 2003 Location: london England Age: 22 Posts: 3,258	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! oh ffs leejo what are you talking about, hitler's hatred of the jewish was not a byproduct of war. and The USA were part of the treaty of versailles which imposed harsh restrictions on the germans. Hitlers war was about exactly religions, only good aryian Christian People were considered the better race, andy Jewish person was dirt BEcause THEY WERE JEWISH. And you have the nerve to blaim the cold war on european expansion and also terrorism... man that is drivle.. first of all the cold war was a pissing contest between the United States of America and Russia. niether of those two fall into Europe. and if it wasnt for a clearly Religiously driven ww2 there would be no stalin in Berlin. that war was about you and ussr not Europe. second of all terrorism is a more related to that cold war than anything elsew because of the fighting between russia and you guys,...if you remember that every majour conflict you have had since 1940 has been armed and supplied by russia. ak47s and t80s ring any bells. and accusing europeans of their dastedly deads starting terror is also a bit rich comming from a nation that proveeded to boot native americans off their land for their own capitalist ways. dont be so dismissive of your own american faults in this because the3re are many. __________________ The Queen "Those who perpetrate these brutal acts against innocent people should know that they will not change our way of life," *Atrocities such as these simply reinforce our sense of community* TheFeniX "Guns don't kill people: effeminate men in green tunics do"

09-26-2004, 10:21 PM	#71 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,787	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! The day a third party candidate polls at 33% is the day that I'll start looking seriously at third party candidates. Until then, I say unto all potential third party candidates: "screw your ideaology and register as a damn Democrat or Republican so you'll get on the stupid ticket, so you can at least get into the room to argue what you believe in." __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

09-27-2004, 08:20 AM	#73 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,787	Re: I am a Swing Voter. Sway me! I didn't say "Win an Election"... I said "poll". If enough people are willing to throw their lot behind a candidate in a pre-election poll, then I'll start taking notice. Heck, Perot caught my eye for a while there. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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