NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much

Steeler · 12-04-2007, 12:02 PM

An Assessment Jars a Foreign Policy Debate About Iran

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Times

There are still hawks in the administration, Vice President Dick Cheney chief among them, who view Iran with deep suspicion. But for now at least, the main argument for a military conflict with Iran — widely rumored and feared, judging by antiwar protesters that often greet Mr. Bush during his travels — is off the table for the foreseeable future.

As Senator Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, put it, the intelligence finding removes, “if nothing else, the urgency that we have to attack Iran, or knock out facilities.” He added: “I don’t think you can overstate the importance of this.”

The White House struggled to portray the estimate as a validation of Mr. Bush’s strategy, a contention that required swimming against the tide of Mr. Bush’s and Mr. Cheney’s occasionally apocalyptic language.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Everbody

This illustrates why you should all agree with my politics.

Kerostasis · 12-04-2007, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeler

Everybody: "This illustrates why you should all agree with my politics."

That pretty much hits the nail on the head.

TheFatKidDeath · 12-04-2007, 12:14 PM

Hopefully this report will take us one step back from the edge but given the track record of this Administration I'm not very optimistic.

xTYBALTx · 12-04-2007, 01:18 PM

Bomb 'em anyways!!!!!!!

TheFatKidDeath · 12-04-2007, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xTYBALTx

Bomb 'em anyways!!!!!!!

Exactly what Vice President Cheney, the NeoCons, AIPAC, AEI, the Heritage Foundation, a majority of the Republican and Democratic candiates, no nothing talk radio/television hosts/pundits and an assortment of right-wing wackos are saying.

**leejo** · 12-04-2007, 01:41 PM

Last week China changed its position on Iran and OK'd stiffer sanctions. I think this NIE report is a piece of a message to Iran, not a change in policy.

Kerostasis · 12-04-2007, 02:12 PM

In line with the commentary in the first post, allow me to illustrate why this report proves Bush was right all along. Next we'll let Fatkiddeath illustrate why this report proves Bush was wrong all along, and you can take your pick of which one to ignore faster.

Timeline:
2002 -- Libya, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea are all pursuing nuclear programs. Iraq is doing a pretty terrible job on theirs, but thats beside the point.
Late 2002 -- Bush declares Iraq, Iran, and North Korea to be the "Axis of Evil", and declares a foreign policy of preventing them from accessing nuclear weapons. Aside from being offended, they mostly laugh at his threats.
Early 2003 -- Bush moves a carrier battlegroup into the gulf, in range of both Iraq and Iran. Iraq is invaded and its government toppled in the span of about 2 weeks.
Mid 2003 -- Libya publicly cancels its nuclear program. Iran privately cancels its nuclear program.
2007 -- North Korea agrees to cancel its nuclear program.

Man, that foreign policy of Bush's has sure failed pretty miserably, huh? We haven't confiscated a single nuclear weapon yet!

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 12-04-2007, 02:26 PM

All I can say it is so nice that we didn't invade first then find this out later. A minor, but welcome, accomplishment.

TheFatKidDeath · 12-04-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

In line with the commentary in the first post, allow me to illustrate why this report proves Bush was right all along. Next we'll let Fatkiddeath illustrate why this report proves Bush was wrong all along, and you can take your pick of which one to ignore faster.

Timeline:
2002 -- Libya, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea are all pursuing nuclear programs. Iraq is doing a pretty terrible job on theirs, but thats beside the point.
Late 2002 -- Bush declares Iraq, Iran, and North Korea to be the "Axis of Evil", and declares a foreign policy of preventing them from accessing nuclear weapons. Aside from being offended, they mostly laugh at his threats.
Early 2003 -- Bush moves a carrier battlegroup into the gulf, in range of both Iraq and Iran. Iraq is invaded and its government toppled in the span of about 2 weeks.
Mid 2003 -- Libya publicly cancels its nuclear program. Iran privately cancels its nuclear program.
2007 -- North Korea agrees to cancel its nuclear program.

Man, that foreign policy of Bush's has sure failed pretty miserably, huh? We haven't confiscated a single nuclear weapon yet!

We are sort of in an odd place where it can be claimed that the worst foreign policy disaster in US history is the antidote for preventing a state from acquiring nuclear arms. However, lets not get ahead of our selves: Iran and North Korea have not canceled their nuclear program or for for that matter their weapons research regardless of the claims made on this time line.

What the time line has proven is the increased desire for Iran and North Korea to acquire nuclear weapons. The Bush Administration has provided nothing to the situation other than increasing the likelhood that one of the "Axis of Evil" states will eventually produce a nuclear weapon.

AMosely · 12-04-2007, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Man, that foreign policy of Bush's has sure failed pretty miserably, huh? We haven't confiscated a single nuclear weapon yet!

Sorry, but I don't even find the jokes funny anymore.

The words 'miserable' and 'failure,' taken together or apart barely begin to describe the harm that Bush's administration has done to American diplomacy, the lives of American soldiers and families, Iraqi civilians who have either fled their homes or died trying and last but not least American taxpayers and 'their' government. I braced myself for a disaster when he moved in to the White House, but could not have imagined what was to come.

Did anyone catch the 60 minutes report on Iraqi Christians? I'd think that even the evangelicals would question the Iraq war and it's merit after watching that. Bush's recent attempt at a Middle Eastern peace summit were insulting at best - a half-hearted, effortless and empty gesture. If it is a legacy he wants (which I doubt he does), why not put pressure on the Sudanese government to end the genocide in Darfur? I can answer that - because it would bother China, because their relationship with Sudan is becoming similar to America's with Saudi Arabia (oil). All the while babies are cut and bled to death in their mother's arms by government sponsored nomadic militias - more refugees, more starvation, more war. The solutions to these problems are cheap and easy, yet instead we've spent billions creating problems elsewhere in the name of what - freedom or fear? Bush's bungled wars have only yielded more of exactly what they intended to decrease - hatred, mistrust and desparation - the main ingredients of militancy and terrorism.

Daxx · 12-04-2007, 05:17 PM

Bush Responds!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Master of Disaster

"I view this report as a warning signal," Bush told reporters at the White House on Tuesday. "Iran was dangerous, Iran is dangerous, and Iran will be dangerous if they have the knowledge necessary to make a nuclear weapon."

Apparently his record player is having technical difficulties.

**TheSkudDestroyer** · 12-04-2007, 07:13 PM

B-Bu-But guys.

They have such a different culture than ours! GOD THEY ARE EVIL.

We have to make them a democracy...or else they cant prosper at all! THEY WANT US TO INVADE.

FatCobra · 12-04-2007, 08:36 PM

When I read what some of you guys think about Politics and Iraq, I cry on the inside...

Daxx · 12-04-2007, 09:25 PM

Steeler · 12-05-2007, 12:41 AM

Kero, I don't think slowing an Iranian weapons program about which we know very little is an even trade for a protracted war of occupation in which Iran has gained tremendous conventional political influence in the region and which has slowly sapped our credibility, economy, and military resources. But then, there is no printed receipt for these kinds of geopolitical transactions.

12-04-2007, 12:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
TheFatKidDeath Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Santa Monica, CA Age: 39 Posts: 2,799	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much Hopefully this report will take us one step back from the edge but given the track record of this Administration I'm not very optimistic. __________________ \|TG-9th\| TheFatKidDeath "Born to Party, Forced to Work." http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55640 - Check me out on The Onion http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...ssfully_avoids - I'm on the local news!

12-04-2007, 01:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
xTYBALTx Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3,919	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much Bomb 'em anyways!!!!!!! __________________ A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek "$250,000 a year won't get me to Central Park West."

12-04-2007, 01:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much Last week China changed its position on Iran and OK'd stiffer sanctions. I think this NIE report is a piece of a message to Iran, not a change in policy.

12-04-2007, 02:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
El_Gringo_Grande Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: OKIE HOMY Age: 40 Posts: 2,862	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much All I can say it is so nice that we didn't invade first then find this out later. A minor, but welcome, accomplishment. __________________ I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host. - "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt - "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson - "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta - If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

12-04-2007, 07:13 PM	#12 (permalink)
TheSkudDestroyer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 3,225	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much B-Bu-But guys. They have such a different culture than ours! GOD THEY ARE EVIL. We have to make them a democracy...or else they cant prosper at all! THEY WANT US TO INVADE. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Skud BMT Graduate - 320th Training Squadron, Flight 024 - MSgt Romero - "Kids no more!" 30 weeks Keesler AFB, 1W031 - Weather

12-04-2007, 08:36 PM	#13 (permalink)
FatCobra Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 249	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much When I read what some of you guys think about Politics and Iraq, I cry on the inside...

12-04-2007, 09:25 PM	#14 (permalink)
Daxx Join Date: May 2003 Location: Kitchener, Ontario Age: 27 Posts: 1,247	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much Why? __________________ I am the one, I am the zero, I am your low resolution hero.

12-05-2007, 12:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
Steeler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Taxachusetts Age: 30 Posts: 2,952	Re: NIE Reports Iran Nukes Not So Much Kero, I don't think slowing an Iranian weapons program about which we know very little is an even trade for a protracted war of occupation in which Iran has gained tremendous conventional political influence in the region and which has slowly sapped our credibility, economy, and military resources. But then, there is no printed receipt for these kinds of geopolitical transactions. __________________

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