Zephyr

Birth rates are declining all across the modernized world. Your argument is absurd given our advances in birth control, medicine, and other technologies which have removed the benefit of expendable manual labor, ensured survival of children through youth, and have prevented unwanted children.


As you can see, the only reason our population is increasing is due to population booms in areas that have not been brought into the modern fold. If not for Asia and Africa, our world population would be on the verge of declining very soon.

Also, that master race comment is equally irrational given the increasing rates of interracial couples.

-Zephyr

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Zephyr

Yes, and Hitler and Stalin both can't match the greatest murderer of the 20th century, and he is ignored and the people killed forgotten. Also, Rwanda is mostly forgotten already despite happening in the 1990's.

Don't try to eradicate a very influential group on the world stage, that gets you ruined. It does not matter how many people you kill, it matters who they are and whether or not they have the power/influence to push their plight into the public eye and, accordingly, history books.

Turkey, for a great example, rarely faces any complaints for its genocide several decades before, which was equally publicized in the US (See "The Burning Tigris"). As Hitler quipped to silence his advisers prior to starting the eradication campaign, "Who remembers the Armenians?"

Moral: Don't exterminate a population with tremendous influence, even if they make great scapegoats for hundreds of years prior. Also, don't invade Russia in the winter.

-Zephyr

__________________
You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

We are no clan.
We are not a single game.
We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

Zephyr

Freaking Second Boer War...lot of good it did them too, eh?

-Zephyr

__________________
You were once like the newbie who needed a hand from above and TacticalGamer gave you it.

You owe the newbie who comes after you that same outstretched hand from above on your honor as a Tactical Gamer.

Tactics at TG come from trust and friendship, not meticulous detail and rigid discipline.

Everyone should be assumed mature until proven otherwise.

We are no clan.
We are not a single game.
We are mature, intelligent, and cooperative individuals.
We are TacticalGamer, a community above and beyond its name.

Ferris Bueller

So apparently it was a misinterpretation as my initial impression led me to believe, at least according to will smith. See the article here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movi....ap/index.html

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

gunjunkie

As a South African, and an amateur historian, that war is still reverberating throughout sub-saharan africa...

We also have it (and the tactical deviousness of the boer commando) to thank for much of the modern canon of guerrilla warfare.

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Do or do not, there is no try....
-- Yoda, Dagobah

TheSkudDestroyer

Funny, nobody mentioned the North American Genocide. I thought at least 1 or 2 of you would have brought it up.

If you ask what I'm referring to then you need to take US History over again.

(Genocide is a bit extreme to describe what happened to Native Americans, as it was inevitable, but it was very systematic at times.)

"Moral" of the story: Every country has done very bad things.

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|TG-6th|Skud, NA Deputy Lead Tester
-F- Skudly

mentholated

"North American Genocide?"

I'm not sure but I'm guessing you mean the genocide of the native people of north america as the colonists assimilated the land of this place slowly, but that wasn't just the british colonists, thats also the work of the spaniards, and the french. But yes, our ancestors, despite the land that we have now (which is a decaying remnant of the place of freedom our forefathers warned wouldn't last without citizens being aware of their power over their government) were genocidal totalitarians... just like the puppet masters of our time. They don't care.

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It's said the road to hell is paved with good intentions. It is with the same good intentions that we blindly place our trust in those with power, the architects of our future and all to often, the manipulators of our ultimate fate.

Zoopy_T

Hitler went to art school when he was younger, wanted to be a painter, was a vegetarian, was also a non-smoker. He also hired homosexual and disabled officers.

Sounds like the American media's portrayal of the perfect American citizen.

Gillespie

Why Hitler thought his army could do what Napoleon's could not is beyond me.

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<ArmA Information/SOPs> <ArmA Admin Team> <TG Req. Reading>

MagnaCentipede

Napoleon's army was busied fighting the metric system; Hitler's army had bigger fish to fry.

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xTYBALTx

It's amazing that Will Smith says something which I doubt anyone could disagree with, and then gets lambasted by the tabloids/press.

Maybe it's not that amazing after all - I guess it's pretty typical.

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Current good song: Justice - Stress

Gambit7

My argument is absurd eh? Welp, I guess you're the tiny voice in a sea of people because most reputable geriatric scientists, futurists, and even the UN believe population growth is going to be a problem (your article is kinda old btw). Couple that with dwindling resources and you've got an even bigger issue.

Low Birth-rate has not nearly enough impact to offset the advances of Science. Fact is, developing countries with high mortality eventually become modernized and their populations live longer. "Smart" cultures who dont have 10 children/family also make up the difference and then some by living much longer lives (and sucking up exponentially more resources). Just look at the Baby Boomers. The difference in life expectancy from them to the generation before them is staggering. (yet another reason Social Security will probably fail, along with health care)

Currently, we're about 20 years out from being able to extend life to about 180 years (if not longer). Overcoming the hurdles of aging isnt as far fetched as it seems. Honestly, I'm surprised you would disagree with me on this fact so wholeheartedly. Have you done any research on this topic? Or is this just your opinion?

You say, "If not for Asia and Africa, our world population would be on the verge of declining very soon." Well.. umm, last time I checked Asia and Africa pretty much accounts for most of the World both geographically, politically, and population-wise. You kinda have to include them when talking about world population. What do you think would happen if China didnt have birth restrictions btw? What would Africa be like w/o Aids and poverty? What do you think if in those regions the people had access to 180+ year lifespans?

Virtually every study I've seen on the topics of "population vs. resources. vs. life-expectancy" paint an extremely bleak picture of the future. Never in any of these reports does anyone stand up and say "falling birth-rates will save us."

War and pandemic Disease is currently the only thing that will save us. Our in-ability to responsibly handle our planet's resources along with our inept drive to colonize other parts of this planet or others, pretty much spells our doom.

As for my Master Race comment, that's a glimpse into what will happen once the technology is available to live such long lives. I like to think eventually the world will be entirely a shade of Mocha (most sci-fi novels portray this), but if you stop to think about history and what would happen if we could live 180+ years, you realize that chances are the Human Race will become even more divided then it ever has been. Arbitrary socio-ethnocentric divisions will be popping up everywhere. People will be grouping up any way they can to survive, that includes racially and religiously. The haves and the have-nots will be grossly disproportionate and The Men who control birth rates will have control over all of it (which race/religion/political party is the majority). A woman's womb will become the new frontline for Jerrymandering, even if Artifical Wombs dont become en vogue. (currently artificial wombs are a reality; they're politically incorrect though so they're not allowed to exist beyond 2 weeks)

Anyways, this is kind of an uber-deep topic to express in a single post. I'll stop here and let it marinate a bit. "Flame On!" (but educated flames please)

p.s.
I happen to be the product of an interracial marriage, and am currently in an interracial relationship

p.p.s.
Erase pregnancy related infant mortality from your birth-rate predictions once Artificial Wombs become legal.

p.p.p.s.
That old UN article you linked (and even some of the newer ones) dont even take into account anti-aging/negligible senescence

p.p.p.p.s.
...........

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Kerostasis

Yes, and these studies are always very impressive and credible, and usually predict disaster will strike within 50 years or less. And we've been seeing these same reports since at least 1798 when Malthus put out his report on population vs resources, and so far disaster hasn't struck yet. So I don't know what we're missing, but obviously there's some factor that isn't being taken into account here, because we keep overhsooting the deadline for disaster.

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Gambit7

Since 1798 the human race has been pretty good about keeping itself in "check" through war, famine, poverty, and disease. This is my point. The true disaster will be an escalation on those fronts due to limited resources, monies, lands, and the slippery slope of life expectancy.

Another "check" will be the ever-increasing costs of health insurance.

People always see "disaster" as something quick and finite. This is not one of those cases. This is a slow bleed with periodic hemorrages to relieve the pressure. Eventually, you end up with a bloody mess that's not worth saving.

There is a way out, but it'd require amazing leadership and a fundamental shift in morality, not to mention religion having to take a backseat (which wont happen). Get rid of most religions and you'd have a much easier task of it.

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xTYBALTx

That's a joke right?

You're saying that life expectancy is lower today than in the 19th century?

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Current good song: Justice - Stress