Gambit7

Iowa always represents what the country SHOULD do, but too often the country goes in the opposite direction. It's been said that the US would be better off just allowing Iowa to decide the whole thing, as those people are much more in-tuned with politics and the country as a whole than most people elsewhere.

I must say I was just about to author a rather long thread about the Caucus myself, because I think people are forgetting the amount of history that was just made in one 2-hour vote. For the first time we've got an African-American (bi-racial to be exact) candidate with an Arab last name and an Internet candidate (dont kid yourself, w/o the Net Huckabee is nothing) with Chuck Norris at his side win a caucus.

People are starting to see Obama as the next Bobby Kennedy. I think I've listened to his victory speech about 3 times already and am still floored by it. IMO, I think a candidate like Obama is more what the country needs just by virtue of the Inspiration and Hope he provides... regardless of even his track record or experience. (Lincoln served only 1 term in congress btw) Although IMO he's the best candidate, something in the back of my mind still says, "America is not ready, nor are they deserving." Even if he makes it through the primaries, I do believe he'll probably still lose the general election and/or be assassinated. Sad, but true.

As for Huckabee, I liked him most from the other garbage in the Republican pool. I really liked how he rose to contention on the backs of bloggers and general net traffic. He sort of represents a more modern democracy. Alas, I'm reserved to believe Romney's Mormon roots caused Huckabee's success.

Giuliani's role is best served as head of Homeland Security, not as pres. of the U.S. You can't elect a president just because he threw a lot of criminals in jail and happened to be in NY during 9/11. Romney is too sharkey looking to me and his politics are uninspiring (just like most of the candidates 'cept for Huck and Obama). Edwards is just a pretty boy Southern used-car salesman who likes to rant... that's all. Clinton represents big business, big lobbies, and the status quo - she's so far up big business' ass it's amazing she can even breath. The fact that she's a woman and a Clinton doesnt make up for it. Alas, the best pres. ticket overall IMO is Obama-Clinton (but that wont happen).

Anyways, rant over. TBC on tuesday.

p.s.
After what I saw in Iowa last night I indeed donated to Obama's campaign and plan on volunteering if I can. I feel America lies on a razor's edge right now... just gotta push a little harder. And yes, I'm an Independent Populist.

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Ferris Bueller

Huckabee scares me with his religious views though. From all outward signs, he's more of a religious nut than the current administration. I dont think I'm alone in saying that we dont need a nation governed by religion.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

Trooper

Might want to look at our countries morals and ethics then come back to that.


I honestly want to see what percentage Ron Paul got out of the whole deal. Im sure under 10% but would still be nice to know.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

El_Gringo_Grande

I have no problem with a deeply religious person being in office. I have a problem if that person desires the whole country to be deeply religious and sees political power as a way to get it there.

Is that possible? Well, Jimmy Carter kinda falls into that category. So I think it is. Huckabee did have that short lived thing attacking Mits Mormon background so it doesn't look that promising. At the same time his demeanor and positions on some of the Sunday news shows seems very reasonable.

Time will tell with him. He is relatively new to the whole thing and his true character will show itself. He may very well be a zealot in moderates clothing.

__________________
Sen. Barack Obama (IL) For President '08
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I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

xTYBALTx

A zealot in zealot's clothing.

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Current good song: Justice - Stress

[tR]Greasy_mullet

And Carter was on of the worst POTUS in the History of the USA as well.

El_Gringo_Grande

Maybe just one of the most unfortunate. But even if he was, I don't think it was due to his religious beliefs.

__________________
Sen. Barack Obama (IL) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

Ferris Bueller

Nah, I dont have to look at anything. Religious views in politics, especially with this administration, is exactly why gay marriage is still an issue when it shouldnt be. Its exactly why sexual education is being opposed in favor of abstinence education and even outlawed in some places. Its exactly why we have such a huge division amongst states about issues that should be dictated by tolerance and common sense rather than by a bible-thumper with the power to say yay or nay.

Obviously I mean no offense toward anyone with any sort of religious views. But as of this administration, the line of separation between church and state has been skewed, and i'm afraid that if we get another administration that chooses to use "good christian values" as a backing for their politics, it's simply going to be erased.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

Trooper

Our country was founded on religion. Look at our founding fathers, most if not all where "bible thumpers". Id call it coming full circle. I'm glad we finally got some candidates who aren't afraid to stand up for what they believe. I wouldn't care if the president was Islamic or buddist. Believing something bigger then themselves is a good thing

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan

Steeler

I don't buy his sweet down home preacher act for a second. Huckabee is a much a good Christian as I am a good 12th level fighter on Thursday nights.

He took massive amounts of gift money as governor. He's spouted some of the most racist, bigoted, and ignorant remarks ever heard from a politician. He hired scumbag Ed Rollins to run his campaign. He's been hypocritically sniping Romney's religion while arrogantly elevating his own. And he raised a brute of a son and then got him off the hook for animal cruelty charges.

I have known men and women who's faith played a powerful and positive force in their public lives. Huck's doesn't seem to. And I sure as hell don't want his sanctimony playing a part in mine.

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Ferris Bueller

Yes, yes the founding fathers were all very religious...almost 250 years ago. And 200 years before that we thought the earth was flat too, so should we continue to believe that because doctrine was founded on that principle as well?

Granted, that while some aspects of evolution have not been conclusively been proven, even the most hardcore religious fanatic must concede that the evolution of ideas and fact is iron clad. 250 years ago we didnt have the issues we have today. We didnt have the most diverse country on earth posting a 300 million person population. We didnt have the strongest economy in the world. We didnt have 50 states, international trade agreements, military policy, economic shift, unemployment numbers, or healthcare to worry about. We had a few thousand people who wanted the British to leave us the hell alone. Now we've got bigger fish to fry and religion isnt the answer.

I certainly believe that everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion. I'm purely agnostic. If it cant be shown to me on a factual basis, I reserve judgment. So while I dont believe in something "higher", i dont believe that it doesnt exist either. It's like a faith-purgatory. Does that make me a bad person? No. But I think it gives me a degree of objectivity when it comes to people who run their lives around religion, especially when said people are presidential candidates who have voiced opinions on things that scare me because they dont hide the religious roots of where those opinions come from.

Standing up for what you believe in is one thing. Using a two millennium old text as your basis for discrimination is just plain wrong. The president's job is to serve the people, not vice-versa, and it's certainly not his job to serve his own religiously-based agenda.

Again, no offense intended to anyone with any kind of religious views. My goal isnt to offend, just to express my opinion on the need for a boundary between religion and governing policy.

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|TG-6th|Ferris Bueller

leejo

I think Iowa means that there will be a long bloody fight between Obama and Clinton. Clinton isn't going away because of all the interest in her ($$) and she has Bill Clinton campaigning for her every day. Obama isn't going away because he's pretty good, because Howard Dean and Clinton don't get along, and because Clinton is so thoroughly unlikable.

I think the Republicans will pretty quickly unite behind whoever wins NH, probably McCain. Huckabee is a real wake-up call and the message is that neither Romney nor Guilianni is viable. McCain is the guy. This is a major capitulation on illegal immigration but it may win the election.

That's how I sees it.

ParkBench

I just hope before I die the November election -

- has more than 2 parties with actually shots at the presidency, I don't mean Ross Perot.

- and with that isn't God with the a big G VS god with a little g. republican's courting the religious right, and democrats trying not to offend them.

Why a nation settled by people trying to escape religious persecution (I'm a new englander) insisted on persecuting the faiths of the natives, and then persecuting the faiths of everyone they come in contact with down through the years, is beyond me.

How about your God and my God play chess... can someone tell me who wins?

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"A hoopy frood always knows where his towel is."

Official Valet Parking Attendant for the 71st. - K signed off on

impatiently waiting for another BF Pirates night.

IKARIAM
Proprietor of the TGA P Bench Pub Hosios [77:81]
TGA BILLY, Pefios [78:82] / TGA Stonington, Suleeos [78:81] / TGA Burger King, laotia [77:78] / TGA Bench Rock, Ashoetia [78:78]

El_Gringo_Grande

You are probably right. I have only seen the marketed side with easy questions.

My God, of course.

__________________
Sen. Barack Obama (IL) For President '08
---
I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

Trooper

I completely agree I was just giving the point of view that Huck is trying to bring to the table. Me personally im all for Ron Paul or John McCain have not really decieded as of yet.

Dint know that about him, interesting.

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that sounds like a good idea trooper.
-Vulcan