Iowa Caucus End result - Page 3

**Gambit7** · 01-05-2008, 05:21 PM

McCain is uninspiring just like most of the GOP. What's worse is he's Bush's lapdog, along with the fact that he's MUCH too "docile" of a person to be president. And if he couldnt beat out Bush 8 years ago, why should we accept him now?

I've been interested in Ron Paul, but he really doesnt have the media face-time to be viable. If this improves we'll see, but we all know it's a lost cause.

I'd like to know why Lou Dobbs is advocating Bloomberg when in fact Bloomberg doesnt have much in common with Dobbs at all. And aside from Bloomberg being an egomaniacal elitist billionaire, we know very little about him.

Kerostasis · 01-05-2008, 08:54 PM

McCain has many faults, but being Bush's lapdog is not one of them. He has recently taken a very conservative position on the Iraq War, but most of his other positions are very moderate and very frequently opposed to Bush. McCain was one of the leaders of the compromise group that nearly sank Bush's supreme court nominees. He authored that rediculous McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform thing to squelch political free speech. He's far from my first choice for President, but I'd still vote for him above any of the Democrats.

Ron Paul is actually my favorite too, but I'll agree with you that he's not very viable. Of the viable candidates, I'd probably go for Romney.

Bc2ID · 01-05-2008, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambit7

McCain is uninspiring just like most of the GOP. What's worse is he's Bush's lapdog, along with the fact that he's MUCH too "docile" of a person to be president.

WOW, check you facts man! This is one of America's greatest people. Uninspiring?? Read his biography. Docilie he is not. Are you sure you are talking about the McCain running for President? He isn't anyones lapdog..read up before you flame.

**Gambit7** · 01-06-2008, 01:05 AM

What I mean by saying McCain is Bush's lapdog is that in many ways McCain was a loyal bush-republican, forceably so (ever see that South Park episode?). In 2000 he constantly had to play 2nd fiddle to Bush and the republican establishment during the election (and again in '04). In a way, his "lapdogness" wasnt his own fault... but he made his bed, now he must sleep in it. If McCain was smart he would've left the party and went Independent, instead of trying to feed off of Republican scraps (like he continues to do in this election).

As for McCain being docile, he just is. Just because he may get angry once and a while and he's a Nam vet doesnt mean he isnt docile. He's a quiet, uninspiring man when he addresses the public and he always looks to be a pretty sullen and confused individual. Dont get me wrong, I LIKE McCain... but his demeanor isnt presidential to me.

**CingularDuality** · 01-06-2008, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Ron Paul is actually my favorite too, but I'll agree with you that he's not very viable.

Y'know what's weird? I hear people say this at least once a day. Talk show hosts, political pundits on TV, friends, family, coworkers. Jeesh, if everyone that said this would just vote for the guy, he'd win by a landslide.

I think this perception of not being electable is a direct result of the media bias against him (yes, including FoxNews).

**Gambit7** · 01-06-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Y'know what's weird? I hear people say this at least once a day. Talk show hosts, political pundits on TV, friends, family, coworkers. Jeesh, if everyone that said this would just vote for the guy, he'd win by a landslide.

I think this perception of not being electable is a direct result of the media bias against him (yes, including FoxNews).

There's a shot he may ditch the GOP and go Indy. If I were him that's what I would do, assuming Obama didnt get the DEM nomination.

Kerostasis · 01-06-2008, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Y'know what's weird? I hear people say this at least once a day. Talk show hosts, political pundits on TV, friends, family, coworkers. Jeesh, if everyone that said this would just vote for the guy, he'd win by a landslide.

I think this perception of not being electable is a direct result of the media bias against him (yes, including FoxNews).

Well, I went so far as to donate some money to his campaign fund. But my state is one of the later voting ones, and if he hasn't won any primaries by the time he gets around to my state, voting for him will be kinda pointless.

I'll agree theres a media bias against him. I can't even find any news stories that list what his vote % was in the first two elections, they just report the totals for Huckabee and Romney, and occasionally McCain.

Whats really funny is the stories that report the totals for Obama (1st in Iowa) and Hillary (3rd in Iowa) and never quite get around to mentioning that there was a second place finisher in the Democratic caucus...

TheFatKidDeath · 01-06-2008, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bommando

I usually choose a candidate to support based on policies like, say, economic policy, healthcare and education. Each to their own I guess.

That's the difference between America and the rest of the world. Americans generally don't choose their candidates based on important issues but meaningless ones like gay marriage, pray in schools and which politican has the biggest American flag on their lapel. Or my personal favorite, "the candidate I'd rather have a beer with", which helped elect the current idiot in office, twice.

Thanks to George Bush, Americans will not be electing a Republican president in '08. Upset that Hillary or Obama is the next President? You can congratulate the dumb and deceive W for that one.

Kerostasis · 01-06-2008, 04:12 AM

Thats a bold prediction there. I'd give nearly any Republican candidate on the list good odds against Hillary, and not that much worse against Obama. Huckabee vs Obama is probably the matchup that gives the best chances of success to the Dems, but even then I wouldn't be trying to call the results just yet...there's a lot of room left for campaigning.

As a side note, when I said earlier that Ron Paul wasn't viable, I meant as a Primary candidate. If he actually got the nomination, I don't really see how he could lose in the general election.

**Gambit7** · 01-06-2008, 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Thats a bold prediction there. I'd give nearly any Republican candidate on the list good odds against Hillary, and not that much worse against Obama. Huckabee vs Obama is probably the matchup that gives the best chances of success to the Dems, but even then I wouldn't be trying to call the results just yet...there's a lot of room left for campaigning.

As a side note, when I said earlier that Ron Paul wasn't viable, I meant as a Primary candidate. If he actually got the nomination, I don't really see how he could lose in the general election.

Sadly, I tend to agree with you (as I've already said). It's the whole "Razor's Edge" paradigm again. Honestly, this is a very scary time for America... and the country could very well become even more fragmented then it already is.

It would seriously not surprise me if the GOP took the office again.

**CingularDuality** · 01-06-2008, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheFatKidDeath

That's the difference between America and the rest of the world. Americans generally don't choose their candidates based on important issues but meaningless ones like gay marriage, pray in schools and which politican has the biggest American flag on their lapel. Or my personal favorite, "the candidate I'd rather have a beer with", which helped elect the current idiot in office, twice.

While it's certainly important to choose the best person for one of the most important positions in the world, I'm not sure that it's wrong to choose someone because you'd down a few brews with him. I strongly believe that there isn't a need for any special skills to become President. That's why the President has a buttload of aides and advisors. Leadership isn't something that you can go to school to learn. Judgement can't be taught, either. I think I'd rather have a random American put in the White House than any of the choices from the two main parties.

**Ferris Bueller** · 01-06-2008, 06:16 AM

Also, I fail to see how the first issue you mentioned is "meaningless". I am not homosexual, but I have friends who are, I have relatives who are, I have coworkers who are. I'm sure the issue of gay marriage (as well as various other discriminatory practices associated with being homosexual in the United States) are certainly not "meaningless" issues to them, or to the millions of other homosexual citizens of the country. Saying that it's a meaningless issue is comparable to saying that the civil rights movement in the 1960s was a meaningless issue for those presidential elections, or womens rights before that.

Before you categorize something as being a trivial issue, keep in mind that it may only be trivial to YOU.

**CingularDuality** · 01-06-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

Before you categorize something as being a trivial issue, keep in mind that it may only be trivial to YOU.

Good point. I have a single issue that comes before all other considerations of any candidate. I think most of us prioritize our political hot buttons...

**Trooper** · 01-06-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Y'know what's weird? I hear people say this at least once a day. Talk show hosts, political pundits on TV, friends, family, coworkers. Jeesh, if everyone that said this would just vote for the guy, he'd win by a landslide.

I think this perception of not being electable is a direct result of the media bias against him (yes, including FoxNews).

I think fox news is the worse when it comes to that. Bill O'got-nothing better to do, just blasts him every chance he gets. I watched the interview of Ron Paul with Glenn Beck, probably the best interview he has gotten and probably the last.

Fox news lately has turned into a really racist and bias news channel, CNN seems to have mellowed out and is doing a better job with candidates.

**El_Gringo_Grande** · 01-06-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

Thats a bold prediction there. I'd give nearly any Republican candidate on the list good odds against Hillary, and not that much worse against Obama. Huckabee vs Obama is probably the matchup that gives the best chances of success to the Dems, but even then I wouldn't be trying to call the results just yet...there's a lot of room left for campaigning.

The democratic turnout was almost 2:1 compared to republicans. And just like you, most democrats would probably vote for their party. So Clinton has a chance.

Turnout is most important. There is a chance that Clinton would inspire the hate filled to turn out against her. Obama? How can you hate that guy? He is inspirational if nothing else. Even George Will seems to be smitten by him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

As a side note, when I said earlier that Ron Paul wasn't viable, I meant as a Primary candidate. If he actually got the nomination, I don't really see how he could lose in the general election.

I do. Once he started getting tough questions his mouth would kill him fast. He can't control himself. Now you may get all warm and tingly by that but many don't.

His initial appeal is that his core message is individual liberty trumps everything. That appeals to the self centered ego in all of us. But he doesn't seem to have any answers for some of the major problems facing us. That would eventually become apparent and kill him.

Plus, see the thing above about turnout and voting for your party.

01-05-2008, 05:21 PM	#31 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 32 Posts: 2,198	Re: Iowa Caucus End result McCain is uninspiring just like most of the GOP. What's worse is he's Bush's lapdog, along with the fact that he's MUCH too "docile" of a person to be president. And if he couldnt beat out Bush 8 years ago, why should we accept him now? I've been interested in Ron Paul, but he really doesnt have the media face-time to be viable. If this improves we'll see, but we all know it's a lost cause. I'd like to know why Lou Dobbs is advocating Bloomberg when in fact Bloomberg doesnt have much in common with Dobbs at all. And aside from Bloomberg being an egomaniacal elitist billionaire, we know very little about him. __________________

01-06-2008, 01:05 AM	#34 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 32 Posts: 2,198	Re: Iowa Caucus End result What I mean by saying McCain is Bush's lapdog is that in many ways McCain was a loyal bush-republican, forceably so (ever see that South Park episode?). In 2000 he constantly had to play 2nd fiddle to Bush and the republican establishment during the election (and again in '04). In a way, his "lapdogness" wasnt his own fault... but he made his bed, now he must sleep in it. If McCain was smart he would've left the party and went Independent, instead of trying to feed off of Republican scraps (like he continues to do in this election). As for McCain being docile, he just is. Just because he may get angry once and a while and he's a Nam vet doesnt mean he isnt docile. He's a quiet, uninspiring man when he addresses the public and he always looks to be a pretty sullen and confused individual. Dont get me wrong, I LIKE McCain... but his demeanor isnt presidential to me. __________________

01-06-2008, 06:16 AM	#42 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: Iowa Caucus End result Also, I fail to see how the first issue you mentioned is "meaningless". I am not homosexual, but I have friends who are, I have relatives who are, I have coworkers who are. I'm sure the issue of gay marriage (as well as various other discriminatory practices associated with being homosexual in the United States) are certainly not "meaningless" issues to them, or to the millions of other homosexual citizens of the country. Saying that it's a meaningless issue is comparable to saying that the civil rights movement in the 1960s was a meaningless issue for those presidential elections, or womens rights before that. Before you categorize something as being a trivial issue, keep in mind that it may only be trivial to YOU. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

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