Kerostasis

Ever since someone first explained to me the concept of Cosmic Background Radiation and how it relates to the curvature of space, I've been pretty convinced that the universe is distinctly not flat. Is there still any significant portion of the scientific community that believes in flat space? Do they have an explanation for Cosmic Background Radiation?

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Gambit7

I never presumed to understand the Universe very well. Honestly, I wouldnt respect any physicist that said that they did.

I understand explanation is half the battle, but that by no stretch means an absence of knowledge.

Also, perhaps you should contribute to the discussion, rather than merely disagreeing. If you're so good at explaining, then please explain.

And again, please prove that my idea of the Universe being Information is false.

Personally, I feel that you saying that an Informational Universe is "crazy an incorrect" disturbing. How can you be so sure of yourself? This type of banter gets nowhere. It's counterproductive. Perhaps you need to inject a bit more philosophy into your math, or perhaps a bit more tact in your statements.

Perhaps being a teacher limits you to the curriculum you believe in? Is your classroom a pliable one? Regardless, since you seem to be a teacher.. then teach - do you have a blog somewhere perhaps?

The issue isnt the existence of the CBR itself, it's the symmetry of it... which is flat along the plane of the ecliptic. And yes, there is a portion of the sci. comm. that believes in flat space. Bear in mind, I dont believe in flat space... but I keep it in mind i.e. "subscribe" to it (subscriptions can be cancelled at any time)
I also tend to look beyond the "flatness." When calling something flat we have to ask ourselves what flat actually is. One man's flat may be another man's sphere so to speak.

here's a pic of the CBR btw:

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CingularDuality

Here's more info on TG's SETI@Home program (with some info on Folding@home in there somewhere, too): http://www.tacticalgamer.com/general...-reminder.html

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sordavie

I don't know what you want me to explain. I haven't made any claims of theoretical physics. i don't know that stuff well enough to take any views on it, much less explain it. What I question are your claims and the reasons you think they are correct. Showing you that you need to be more critical of your own beliefs is a very important contribution to the discussion, even if you feel slighted.

When a theoretical physicist says that "everything physical is information," they aren't using the word 'information' as we'd normally use it. They aren't referring to things like bits on a digital computer. Rather, they are referring to whatever makes it possible to distinguish one thing from another--what Aristotle would have called 'form' and what contemporary philosophers call 'universals' or 'properties'.

You appear to be using the notion of information as bits of computer memory or something; and, even that doesn't only come in bits which are on or off. (There are such things as analog computers.) To confuse the concept of physical information, which theoretical physicists use, with that of our ordinary uses of the word 'information' is to equivocate.

I don't see how teaching "limits one to the curriculum they believe in." One doesn't only teach what one believes in. I'm a PhD student in philosophy. I only mention teaching undergrads as an anecdote when one finds that they can't seem to explain something clearly.

Fortunately, since philosophy is my area of study, where would you like philosophy injected?

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Gambit7

Anywhere man. This is basically a philosophical debate isnt it? So please tell us what you think.

As for the Universe being basically Information, if you peruse the link I gave to the Edge convention on "Life: What a Concept" you'll find a video of what I'm talking about (scroll down to Seth Lloyd). While I dont necessarily agree with everything he says, he does pose some interested thoughts.

DIMITAR SASSELOV's video is also very interesting. If you're into astronomy you'll probably know who he is. He's also been touted on a few TV shows. He offers a glimpse to a potential restructuring of the Drake equation to a higher resolution through his discovery of "super-Earths."

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ScratchMonkey

The universe might be a simulation on some super computer. But our perception of it would not be able to detect this, if the simulation is done well enough. A similar thing happens with Virtual Machine (VM) software, which lets one OS host another OS by pretending to be a raw computer with no OS. The better the VM, the more undetectable it is to the hosted OS. (A rootkit is a special case of such a beast, designed with malicious intent to snooker a hosted program.)

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sordavie

I did enjoy the video, but didn't see anywhere in that video where Lloyd says that the universe is information. His claim is that the universe is computational in nature. This is similar to David Armstrong's combinatorial theory of possibility except applied to the actual universe. (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...NFi14#PPR7,M1) This is not to say that the universe is just information in our every day sense.

Whether there actually are complex life forms in planets other than Earth is not a philosophical debate. That is an empirical inquiry and the tools of philosophy can't answer such a question. That is why you see and hear scientists, but not philosophers, debating the question.

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xTYBALTx

Stephen Hawking believes it's likely that there are currently no highly advanced alien civilizations within several hundred light years of earth.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/242

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Fenian420

Wow.

Gambit7

Underline currently with that statement. That's not to say there wasnt some form of intelligent life at some point within our "local space." Relatively speaking, human civilization has existed for a very short time - and our ability to understand and detect our universe even shorter.

Also, it's kind of a "duh" statement. If there was alien intelligence that close to us we most likely would've detected them by now... optically even.

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MagnaCentipede

Optically? Not yet. We're coming able to resolve planets as bulges, and I think there was one shot of a large planet separate from its star, but we're not even close to the acuity needed to resolve the searchlights of a Toyotathon on Omicron Persei VIII.

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xTYBALTx

Stephen Hawking believes it's likely that there are currently no highly advanced alien civilizations within several hundred light years of earth.


^Is that better, Gambit? If it was such a 'duh' statement, one wonders why Stephen Hawking needed to give his talk at all. Maybe they could have just phoned you?

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leejo

Some people do claim to have detected them...rectally even.

RGM-79N_GM_CUstom

Ah the perfect thread. I recently was watching the Ghostbusters and I had no idea that Dan Akroyd is a UFOlogist. He actually has a documentary out where he talks about his beliefs. It's on google video.

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ScratchMonkey

As an RF-emitting civilization we've gotten considerably quieter since we first discovered radio. Expect distant civilizations to be pretty hard to hear after their first century with RF.

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