Tom Cruise's Scientology Video

**Gambit7** · 01-16-2008, 10:10 PM

This vid. has gone up and been taken off the internet about 4 times already. I think NOW it'll finally stay up - I hope. Basically, it shows Mr. Cruise in typical religious zealot form. Some say he's crazy, I just say he a typical religious person... I've seen no worse from other religions. The issue lies in trying to interpret something (scientology) from the outside, so people get confused and start hating on it/him (cruise). I think Scientologists need to do a bit more in publicizing their message, otherwise stuff like this Cruise video will just get chalked up as being "loony." (most people now think Tom Cruise is quite crazy after seeing this vid.)

Well.. here it is people:
http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise...ed-to-suppress

p.s.
Now, I'm a fan of certain Scientology principles (the few I'm aware of)... but, this video just scares me in a way. Any Scientologists in TG want to enlighten us?

**Atomic Dog** · 01-16-2008, 11:57 PM

Scientology = Borrowed religious teachings combined with a smathering of Science Fiction writing. Nothing Scientology offers is unique. It's all borrowed. All that's unique about Scientology is the zany sci-fi stuff...and even that isn't all that unique.

**Gambit7** · 01-17-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

Scientology = Borrowed religious teachings combined with a smathering of Science Fiction writing. Nothing Scientology offers is unique. It's all borrowed. All that's unique about Scientology is the zany sci-fi stuff...and even that isn't all that unique.

I could say this about every religion. Fact is, none are unique.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-17-2008, 12:24 AM

Not entirely true, but somewhat true indeed. Of the 5 major religions in the world (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism) each offer something unique and seperate from the others. Albeit, there IS a common current of thought that runs through each of them. That common current has always been the thing that I've paid attention too and what I assume to be some kind of Universal Truth (but that's just me). And if we get to splitting hairs...Zoarastrianism is the Granddaddy of them all.

Scientology is just a rewording of them all minus any kind of cultural or historical significance and colored with a ton of sci-fi BS.

**sordavie** · 01-17-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurt Vonnegut

How on earth can religious people believe in so much arbitrary, clearly invented balderdash?....The acceptance of a creed, any creed, entitles the acceptor to membership in the sort of artificial extended family we call a congregation. It is a way to fight loneliness. Any time I see a person fleeing from reason and into religion, I think to myself, There goes a person who simply cannot stand being so goddamned lonely anymore.

I think Scientology is far crazier than most of the world's major religions because of the kinds of empirically false claims it makes. At least believers in other religions interpret their revealed texts and revelations in such a way that's either empirically untestable or at least not obviously empirically false.

[edit] Perhaps I shouldn't say that I think Scientology itself is crazy--it's not any crazier that many science fiction novels out there--but instead that I think people who believe that the teachings of Scientology are true are crazy. Any reasonable person understands that only someone delusional could believe all of the Star Trek cannon to be true. In the same vein, only someone delusional could believe that all of the claims of Scientology to be true.

**Tonk** · 01-17-2008, 12:38 AM

hey now, im a scientologist

(jk)

**Atomic Dog** · 01-17-2008, 12:39 AM

No offense to Kurt, but I think he's way off on that statement as far as the serious student of religion goes. Sure, congregations are full of lonely people...but not everyone who attends a religious service is there because they are lonely or afraid.

**Ferris Bueller** · 01-17-2008, 02:15 AM

The problem that I have with scientology as a religion, other than the fact that its members tend to be zealots and attempt to recruit heavily, is that its teachings are not morally and ethically relevant as the "big" religions. Each of the more major religions has a grounding in moral and ethical values (the ten commandments, the four noble truths, the eightfold path, karma and dharma, the tao, zen, etc). Scientology simply rips off the concepts of the others and offers it up on a plate with a big serving of science fiction. I have a hard time buying religious teachings that come from the same guy who wrote Battlefield Earth.

Also, that Vonnegut quote is largely misinterpreted, as it is in this case. Before he died, Kurt actually went on to explain that he didnt mean that people who believe in a higher power are lonely or afraid, but that people who, when involved in a logical argument based in fact, seem to feel the need to resort to talking about religious backing when they lack any kind of relevant material on the subject. Having faith is not necessarily a bad thing, but there are those who use it as a crutch, and do so frequently. That is whats sad.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-17-2008, 02:32 AM

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Ferris Bueller again"

You are my new favorite person.

**Rincewind** · 01-17-2008, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

"You must spread reputation around before giving it to Ferris Bueller again"

You are my new favorite person.

D:

Goddamnit! What did I do wrong?? Why did I lose this crown?

Oh, and Tom Cruise is insane.

AMosely · 01-17-2008, 11:49 AM

Scientology is only a religion because it grants the organization tax-exempt status (as well as the other economic benefits that a church receives). It is the grandest scam of all religious scams, and the organization itself functions more as a cult than it does a church. How can I make this assertion? If the Tom Cruise video did not convince you of how universally hollow the 'religion' of Scientology is, I can tell you first hand how just how hollow it is.

Though it shames me to admit it, I once worked as a contracted information analysis expert for a law firm (a side job during graduate school). The firm was hired by the 'church' to run a teardown case against a website called F.A.C.Tnet and its operators. The case was almost entirely based on copyright infrigement - the church alleged that some of its 'sacred' texts were publicly posted by this organization, which happened to be made up of ex-scientologists convinced that the organization was a sham. These 'sacred' texts are really just the upper-echelon of L.R.Hubbard's sci-fi writings, but no one is allowed to read them until they make a certain 'thetan level' in the church - in other words, they paid their way up the chain. So it is no wonder that the church goes after anyone who leaks these texts, because that would tend do diminish their value (and it's a pretty high value - tens of thousands of dollars).

To make a long story short, I had no idea what I was getting into. But being the curious person that I am, I read a lot of the text - hundreds of hours worth. It's complete science fiction - nothing more. In the end, you find out that your soul really belongs to an alien. I'm not kidding. I did all of this reading under the watchful eyes of high-ranking church officials (to make sure I didn't copy it, and to ensure that it was I who did the work). I couldn't help but make conversation with them, and I asked a lot of questions that they didn't want to answer. I did, however, get to check out one of their e-meters, which is what they use to measure the 'purity' of your spirit - your 'inner thetan.' It was basically a volt meter, and if you've ever played with one on your own body you know how easy it is to trigger minor fluctuations. I tried to get a free reading, but they wouldn't do it.

I realize there's a larger debate here. Religion is exists in the realm of belief. Scientologists believe this science fiction is real - as real as Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or God itself. In my own beliefs, Scientology is the one that trumps them all - it is a modern world religion-cult, and it is utterly strange. What other religion makes you buy your way up the chain, not allowing you to read certain 'teachings' until you've attained a certain level? Sounds more like a MMORPG to me.

Also note a recent article in the New Yorker on Scientology's 'Celebrity Centre' in Hollywood. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_goodyear - just throwing this out because it's fresh material on this ever-growing oddity of American culture.

**Gambit7** · 01-17-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMosely

Scientology is only a religion because it grants the organization tax-exempt status (as well as the other economic benefits that a church receives). It is the grandest scam of all religious scams, and the organization itself functions more as a cult than it does a church. How can I make this assertion? If the Tom Cruise video did not convince you of how universally hollow the 'religion' of Scientology is, I can tell you first hand how just how hollow it is.

Though it shames me to admit it, I once worked as a contracted information analysis expert for a law firm (a side job during graduate school). The firm was hired by the 'church' to run a teardown case against a website called F.A.C.Tnet and its operators. The case was almost entirely based on copyright infrigement - the church alleged that some of its 'sacred' texts were publicly posted by this organization, which happened to be made up of ex-scientologists convinced that the organization was a sham. These 'sacred' texts are really just the upper-echelon of L.R.Hubbard's sci-fi writings, but no one is allowed to read them until they make a certain 'thetan level' in the church - in other words, they paid their way up the chain. So it is no wonder that the church goes after anyone who leaks these texts, because that would tend do diminish their value (and it's a pretty high value - tens of thousands of dollars).

To make a long story short, I had no idea what I was getting into. But being the curious person that I am, I read a lot of the text - hundreds of hours worth. It's complete science fiction - nothing more. In the end, you find out that your soul really belongs to an alien. I'm not kidding. I did all of this reading under the watchful eyes of high-ranking church officials (to make sure I didn't copy it, and to ensure that it was I who did the work). I couldn't help but make conversation with them, and I asked a lot of questions that they didn't want to answer. I did, however, get to check out one of their e-meters, which is what they use to measure the 'purity' of your spirit - your 'inner thetan.' It was basically a volt meter, and if you've ever played with one on your own body you know how easy it is to trigger minor fluctuations. I tried to get a free reading, but they wouldn't do it.

I realize there's a larger debate here. Religion is exists in the realm of belief. Scientologists believe this science fiction is real - as real as Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or God itself. In my own beliefs, Scientology is the one that trumps them all - it is a modern world religion-cult, and it is utterly strange. What other religion makes you buy your way up the chain, not allowing you to read certain 'teachings' until you've attained a certain level? Sounds more like a MMORPG to me.

Also note a recent article in the New Yorker on Scientology's 'Celebrity Centre' in Hollywood. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_goodyear - just throwing this out because it's fresh material on this ever-growing oddity of American culture.

Everything you've said is probably akin to what the Jews said about Jesus. Or the Egyptians said about the Jews. It definitely was said by the Crusaders in. re: Muslims. Nefertiti was ostrasized because of her strange beliefs in the one God "Rah." I could go on and on.

Scientology is nothing but a modern parody of older religions. No better or worse than them IMO. It's more difficult for people to swallow because most people cant relate with technobabble/science.

In another few hundred years, who knows... maybe Scientology will become a "credible" religion by mere fact it's been around long enough (perhaps the iPod generation will take a liking to it). Remember, Christianity took quite a while to become credible... along with every other religion for that matter.

The key to all religions is gleaning the useful information from them. The idolatry, ritualism, institutions, and divisions I could care less about.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-17-2008, 12:18 PM

What's absurd about Scientology is that it is most definitely NOT a parody. The Church of the Subgenius IS an organized religious parody. Scientologists actually believe their crap.

Regardless of who said what about who and when they said it, the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Egyptians, etc all have cultural and historical significance. Also, their religions sprung from men who didn't just write some fiction...they shaped and built their cultures. They martyrd themselves in many cases. Across the board you find this in the Judaeo-Christian religions. You can't find one instance of any significant social contribution or struggle within Scientology. You just find old proverbs reworded and spun for people willing to throw money at the Church.

But hey, if that's your thing that's your thing.

AMosely · 01-17-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atomic Dog

You can't find one instance of any significant social contribution or struggle within Scientology. You just find old proverbs reworded and spun for people willing to throw money at the Church.

Oh, but not true Atomic! From the New Yorker article:

Quote:

"Nowadays, the Scientologists are part of the local establishment. The Church has hosted Chamber of Commerce mixers in its buildings; it helps out with an annual police- and fire-department barbecue, has a representative on the board of the Hollywood Arts Council and another on the board of the local business-improvement district, and maintains a strong presence in the Hollywood Thanksgiving-weekend parade. During the Christmas season, the lot next to the Christie is fashioned into “Winter Wonderland,” a display with a towering fir tree and a resident Santa Claus on a faux-snow-and-glitter-encrusted set. “The longer they’re here, the more credibility they have and the more respect,” Leron Gubler, who runs the Chamber of Commerce, says. Kip Rudd, a senior planner at a city-redevelopment agency which came into Hollywood in the eighties to spur investment, says, “The Scientologists were the jewels along the boulevard in terms of keeping it vital. They’ve taken a variety of nice old buildings and maintained and upgraded them.” Last year, the Los Angeles Business Journal gave the Church an award for adaptive reuse."

In all seriousness - in this day and age, who is to say that contributing to the economic establishment isn't saintly? It's a pretty fascinating debate - what, exactly, 'legitimizes' religion? What is the actual difference between a religious belief and a non-religious belief? That one is moral and the other is not? Because one involves a God or diety? The soul? Scientology blurs these divisions, therefore making for an interesting study in what qualifies or disqualifies belief as religion.

**Atomic Dog** · 01-17-2008, 01:40 PM

What an interesting article, Mosley.

IMO, what "legitimizes" religion to an individual is simple belief. What "legitimizes" religion to the student of religion...now that's a debate! I'm not sure how to answer that myself.

A look at the Big 5 shows us that religion has cultural origins, historical relevance, prophets, and a long track record of sustainability. Compared to these, Scientology is a flash in the pan having been created in 1952 and will more than likely fizzle out like many religious cults like it do.

01-16-2008, 10:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Gambit7 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Hollywood, FL Age: 31 Posts: 1,934	Tom Cruise's Scientology Video This vid. has gone up and been taken off the internet about 4 times already. I think NOW it'll finally stay up - I hope. Basically, it shows Mr. Cruise in typical religious zealot form. Some say he's crazy, I just say he a typical religious person... I've seen no worse from other religions. The issue lies in trying to interpret something (scientology) from the outside, so people get confused and start hating on it/him (cruise). I think Scientologists need to do a bit more in publicizing their message, otherwise stuff like this Cruise video will just get chalked up as being "loony." (most people now think Tom Cruise is quite crazy after seeing this vid.) Well.. here it is people: http://gawker.com/5002269/the-cruise...ed-to-suppress p.s. Now, I'm a fan of certain Scientology principles (the few I'm aware of)... but, this video just scares me in a way. Any Scientologists in TG want to enlighten us? __________________

01-16-2008, 11:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video Scientology = Borrowed religious teachings combined with a smathering of Science Fiction writing. Nothing Scientology offers is unique. It's all borrowed. All that's unique about Scientology is the zany sci-fi stuff...and even that isn't all that unique. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

01-17-2008, 12:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video Not entirely true, but somewhat true indeed. Of the 5 major religions in the world (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and Hinduism) each offer something unique and seperate from the others. Albeit, there IS a common current of thought that runs through each of them. That common current has always been the thing that I've paid attention too and what I assume to be some kind of Universal Truth (but that's just me). And if we get to splitting hairs...Zoarastrianism is the Granddaddy of them all. Scientology is just a rewording of them all minus any kind of cultural or historical significance and colored with a ton of sci-fi BS. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

01-17-2008, 12:38 AM	#6 (permalink)
Tonk Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Luck, WI USA Age: 22 Posts: 2,810	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video hey now, im a scientologist (jk) __________________ -Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely, in an attractive and well preserved body; but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, a beer in the other, body totally worn out screaming "YEEEHAW, WHAT A RIDE!!!" - my grandpa -My New Rig: cpu: AMD 6400+ 3.2ghz dual core mobo: Asus Crosshair ram: 8gb (4x2gb) geil exotera 4-4-4-12 video card MSI 8800GTS 512mb (g92) Vista:x64 Laptop: Dell i9300 2.16ghz-2gb ram-6800-17" 1920x1200 -Toasty/Tonk/Chair http://tgtonk.notlong.com

01-17-2008, 12:39 AM	#7 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video No offense to Kurt, but I think he's way off on that statement as far as the serious student of religion goes. Sure, congregations are full of lonely people...but not everyone who attends a religious service is there because they are lonely or afraid. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

01-17-2008, 02:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 4,826	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video The problem that I have with scientology as a religion, other than the fact that its members tend to be zealots and attempt to recruit heavily, is that its teachings are not morally and ethically relevant as the "big" religions. Each of the more major religions has a grounding in moral and ethical values (the ten commandments, the four noble truths, the eightfold path, karma and dharma, the tao, zen, etc). Scientology simply rips off the concepts of the others and offers it up on a plate with a big serving of science fiction. I have a hard time buying religious teachings that come from the same guy who wrote Battlefield Earth. Also, that Vonnegut quote is largely misinterpreted, as it is in this case. Before he died, Kurt actually went on to explain that he didnt mean that people who believe in a higher power are lonely or afraid, but that people who, when involved in a logical argument based in fact, seem to feel the need to resort to talking about religious backing when they lack any kind of relevant material on the subject. Having faith is not necessarily a bad thing, but there are those who use it as a crutch, and do so frequently. That is whats sad. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

01-17-2008, 02:32 AM	#9 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video "You must spread reputation around before giving it to Ferris Bueller again" You are my new favorite person. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

01-17-2008, 11:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
AMosely Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maine Age: 33 Posts: 2,533	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video Scientology is only a religion because it grants the organization tax-exempt status (as well as the other economic benefits that a church receives). It is the grandest scam of all religious scams, and the organization itself functions more as a cult than it does a church. How can I make this assertion? If the Tom Cruise video did not convince you of how universally hollow the 'religion' of Scientology is, I can tell you first hand how just how hollow it is. Though it shames me to admit it, I once worked as a contracted information analysis expert for a law firm (a side job during graduate school). The firm was hired by the 'church' to run a teardown case against a website called F.A.C.Tnet and its operators. The case was almost entirely based on copyright infrigement - the church alleged that some of its 'sacred' texts were publicly posted by this organization, which happened to be made up of ex-scientologists convinced that the organization was a sham. These 'sacred' texts are really just the upper-echelon of L.R.Hubbard's sci-fi writings, but no one is allowed to read them until they make a certain 'thetan level' in the church - in other words, they paid their way up the chain. So it is no wonder that the church goes after anyone who leaks these texts, because that would tend do diminish their value (and it's a pretty high value - tens of thousands of dollars). To make a long story short, I had no idea what I was getting into. But being the curious person that I am, I read a lot of the text - hundreds of hours worth. It's complete science fiction - nothing more. In the end, you find out that your soul really belongs to an alien. I'm not kidding. I did all of this reading under the watchful eyes of high-ranking church officials (to make sure I didn't copy it, and to ensure that it was I who did the work). I couldn't help but make conversation with them, and I asked a lot of questions that they didn't want to answer. I did, however, get to check out one of their e-meters, which is what they use to measure the 'purity' of your spirit - your 'inner thetan.' It was basically a volt meter, and if you've ever played with one on your own body you know how easy it is to trigger minor fluctuations. I tried to get a free reading, but they wouldn't do it. I realize there's a larger debate here. Religion is exists in the realm of belief. Scientologists believe this science fiction is real - as real as Moses, Jesus, Mohammed or God itself. In my own beliefs, Scientology is the one that trumps them all - it is a modern world religion-cult, and it is utterly strange. What other religion makes you buy your way up the chain, not allowing you to read certain 'teachings' until you've attained a certain level? Sounds more like a MMORPG to me. Also note a recent article in the New Yorker on Scientology's 'Celebrity Centre' in Hollywood. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2..._fact_goodyear - just throwing this out because it's fresh material on this ever-growing oddity of American culture.

01-17-2008, 12:18 PM	#13 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video What's absurd about Scientology is that it is most definitely NOT a parody. The Church of the Subgenius IS an organized religious parody. Scientologists actually believe their crap. Regardless of who said what about who and when they said it, the Jews, Christians, Muslims, Egyptians, etc all have cultural and historical significance. Also, their religions sprung from men who didn't just write some fiction...they shaped and built their cultures. They martyrd themselves in many cases. Across the board you find this in the Judaeo-Christian religions. You can't find one instance of any significant social contribution or struggle within Scientology. You just find old proverbs reworded and spun for people willing to throw money at the Church. But hey, if that's your thing that's your thing. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

01-17-2008, 01:40 PM	#15 (permalink)
Atomic Dog Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Age: 31 Posts: 3,992	Re: Tom Cruise's Scientology Video What an interesting article, Mosley. IMO, what "legitimizes" religion to an individual is simple belief. What "legitimizes" religion to the student of religion...now that's a debate! I'm not sure how to answer that myself. A look at the Big 5 shows us that religion has cultural origins, historical relevance, prophets, and a long track record of sustainability. Compared to these, Scientology is a flash in the pan having been created in 1952 and will more than likely fizzle out like many religious cults like it do. __________________ \| ArmA SOPs \| PCS SOPs \| TG Primer \| 4th Wiki \| Ikariam Info: Mothership \| Parliament \| Chocolate City \| Saint George

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