Abolish direct presidential election

ScratchMonkey · 01-30-2008, 09:19 AM

An interesting proposal here:

http://ca.lp.org/lp20071217.shtml

Quote:

it is madness for a mass of voters to elect presidents they know little about and whom they cannot control once in office. We should therefore abolish presidential elections rather than seek to reform our inherently dysfunctional mass democracy.

Quote:

we get better government if power is decentralized as much as possible. It would be best for voters to only elect neighborhood councils made up of individuals whom they can know personally, then have these councils elect higher-level councils, and so on up to the highest level, Congress, which would then elect the president, like prime ministers are elected in parliamentary systems. Elected officials could be recalled at any time by the lower-level council that elected them.

My own preference is for proxy-based direct democracy, at least to replace the House and Senate and other legislative bodies. I found a good description of the concept here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delegable_proxy

**peardog** · 01-30-2008, 11:04 AM

"Delegable proxy was originally designed for small, stealthy, distributed teams of anarchist kung-fu badasses" - Wiki..

I am all for it!

**Pokerface** · 01-30-2008, 11:46 AM

... but we don't directly elect the president now.

**tHa_KhAn** · 01-30-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

... but we don't directly elect the president now.

Exactly. However, most people do not realize that.

leejo · 01-30-2008, 12:46 PM

a mere technicality

**Rincewind** · 01-30-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

... but we don't directly elect the president now.

Well, when we do, we could progress beyond that. It's quite simple really.

Kerostasis · 01-30-2008, 01:23 PM

It strikes me that this system would require an enormous amount of manpower and beaurocracy to maintain. The total number of elected representatives required would be astounding. And higher level reps would nearly always be elected from among the ranks of the lower level reps, thus preserving the dynastic nature of politics -- career politicians would be the only ones capable of reaching high levels.

I dunno, seems kinda fishy to me.

**tHa_KhAn** · 01-30-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

a mere technicality

Yes, but a more interesting question would be....how many states does a candidate actually have to receive electoral votes from to win? Has anyone worked out the fewest number?
http://www.fec.gov/pages/elecvote.htm

Kerostasis · 01-30-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tHa_KhAn

Yes, but a more interesting question would be....how many states does a candidate actually have to receive electoral votes from to win? Has anyone worked out the fewest number?
http://www.fec.gov/pages/elecvote.htm

*Counts*

11, if you take only those states with the greatest number of votes:

Georgia
New Jersey
North Carolina
Michigan
Ohio
Illinois
Pennsylvania
Florida
New York
Texas
California

Then again, when was the last time the same candidate won both Texas and California?

**tHa_KhAn** · 01-30-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

*Counts*

11, if you take only those states with the greatest number of votes:

Georgia
New Jersey
North Carolina
Michigan
Ohio
Illinois
Pennsylvania
Florida
New York
Texas
California

Yep. Assuming they were all the "All or Nothing" with their Electorate. So out of 50 states, 11 can decide the presidency. Don't tell Gore supporters.

Kerostasis · 01-30-2008, 01:52 PM

This seems like as good a place as any to update my list of Republican standings:

Code:

    Place  1  2  3  Non-place

Romney     3  3  0  1

McCain     3  1  1  2

Huckabee   1  1  2  3

Ron Paul   0  1  0  6

Giuliani   0  0  1  6  (Dropped Out after Florida)

Thompson   0  1  2  3  (Dropped Out after South Carolina)

Hunter     0  0  1  4  (Dropped Out after Nevada)

Tancredo   0  0  0  0  (Dropped out before first voting)

The field is shrinking rapidly. Romney still has the best place record, but McCain has the lead in delegates since Florida carried so many.

**MagnaCentipede** · 01-30-2008, 02:24 PM

Which is terrible. With the loss of Fred, Mitt's the only conservative left. The rest seem to be liberals trying to run for president of Mexico. Which is probably why he got my state -- it's full of Español, liberals, and old people who do what TV tells them to do.

What chaos it is that someone can form a presidential candidacy platform on not-enforcing standing federal law.

The good news is the liberal media is afraid of Mitt. They will hardly show his face on TV while they talk MexiCain everywhere. Clearly they know which candidate they want the Hillary/Obama ticket to face at year's end.

**Pokerface** · 01-30-2008, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnaCentipede

Which is terrible. With the loss of Fred, Mitt's the only conservative left. The rest seem to be liberals trying to run for president of Mexico. Which is probably why he got my state -- it's full of Español, liberals, and old people who do what TV tells them to do.

What chaos it is that someone can form a presidential candidacy platform on not-enforcing standing federal law.

The good news is the liberal media is afraid of Mitt. They will hardly show his face on TV while they talk MexiCain everywhere. Clearly they know which candidate they want the Hillary/Obama ticket to face at year's end.

Wait, wait... you lost me with that second sentence.
Since when in Huckabee liberal?

**TheFeniX** · 01-30-2008, 04:00 PM

So, instead of electing a president "we know nothing about," we would elect people we probably don't know a whole lot more about, who would then elect other people we know nothing about, who would then elect other people we know nothing about, and so on until we end up with a rabid possum in head office?

I like this plan.

**Pokerface** · 01-30-2008, 04:04 PM

HEY! Some of my best friends are rabid possums.

01-30-2008, 11:04 AM	#2 (permalink)
peardog Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: PA, USA Age: 39 Posts: 1,073	Re: Abolish direct presidential election "Delegable proxy was originally designed for small, stealthy, distributed teams of anarchist kung-fu badasses" - Wiki.. I am all for it! __________________ Have a great day! 2008!!! TG - SOP -- TeamSpeak Server Information - REQUIRED READING

01-30-2008, 11:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Abolish direct presidential election ... but we don't directly elect the president now. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

01-30-2008, 12:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,421	Re: Abolish direct presidential election a mere technicality

01-30-2008, 02:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
MagnaCentipede Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,617	Re: Abolish direct presidential election Which is terrible. With the loss of Fred, Mitt's the only conservative left. The rest seem to be liberals trying to run for president of Mexico. Which is probably why he got my state -- it's full of Español, liberals, and old people who do what TV tells them to do. What chaos it is that someone can form a presidential candidacy platform on not-enforcing standing federal law. The good news is the liberal media is afraid of Mitt. They will hardly show his face on TV while they talk MexiCain everywhere. Clearly they know which candidate they want the Hillary/Obama ticket to face at year's end. __________________

01-30-2008, 04:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
TheFeniX Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 26 Posts: 4,414	Re: Abolish direct presidential election So, instead of electing a president "we know nothing about," we would elect people we probably don't know a whole lot more about, who would then elect other people we know nothing about, who would then elect other people we know nothing about, and so on until we end up with a rabid possum in head office? I like this plan. __________________ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - TheFeniX's Steam Profile TG's Team Fortress 2 Steam Group

01-30-2008, 04:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 29 Posts: 5,722	Re: Abolish direct presidential election HEY! Some of my best friends are rabid possums. __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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