stickyjeans69

Blocking a Doorway is very much against the law. im surprised somebody wasn't knocked the **** out. as to Elwinel's comments about Executing Protestors for committing no more then a misdemeanor you really make me sick with that comment. it's against many of the bases our country was founded on. go move to Russia if you want that kind of Idealism, I gauruntee you won't enjoy any such bit of it after having so much freedom

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Elwenil

No, a fast food restaurant is not something that defends our country or our freedom. I would definitely have them arrested for causing a disturbance, but it's not a treasonous action so I wouldn't want them shot. I am 100% in favor of speaking your mind, voting to change your leadership when you don't agree with the current leaders and also I think that we should support and respect our elected leaders and the soldiers who guard our lives, freedoms, and our way of life. If I don't like the current President of the United States, I as a US citizen may decide to voice my displeasure, but I will never cross the line and disrespect the office. Same with our military, I support them 100%, but I do think that some individual soldiers have made mistakes that I do not agree with. I may choose to voice my opinion on them, but I would not disrespect a whole branch of our armed forces by trying to prevent them from doing their jobs.

The point is that these people have a problem with the War in Iraq. That's fine, they can dislike it if they wish, but our chosen leader started it and while they may not like it, they were not in the majority to elect their leader, so they are out of luck until the next election when they can try again. Taking out their dislike of the war on a Marine recruiting office is foolish. It serves no purpose, and it solves nothing. If they wanted to protest the war, they should do it at the White House, not at an office where Marines are just doing their job as they are ordered to do. By crossing the line and turning a foolish, misguided protest into a physical altercation, they should have been arrested and prosecuted. In this case the police are obviously corrupt and stood by and let it happen, in which case it becomes something of a conspiracy and all involved should be punished to the full extent of the law for causing a disturbance and for undermining the morale of the people of the United States of America. Since they saw fit to do this at a recruiting office and fight with the very people who protect their freedoms they are abusing, I feel that they are traitors and should be dealt with severely.

Freedom of Speech does not give a person the right to harm people or interfere with their lives. What do you think would happen if I did a similar protest outside the Berkley City Council's office and I blocked the doors so people could not go about their business? Guaranteed I would be arrested for something, even if it was only violating the fire code by blocking a doorway.

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Elwenil

Since when is Patriotism some sort of bad thing? It doesn't surprise me that Stickyjeans is from Kalifornia.

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sculls

Maybe they are trying to stop people going in so they dont sign up for a war that they deem to be based on a lie (WMD's) and that there is every chance they will die for Oil rather than freedom.

Elwenil

That is for the individual who intends to sign up for the USMC to decide, not the City Council, or a bunch of vigilante protestors. Trying to force someone to submit to your ideals is not freedom of speech.

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stickyjeans69

never in my post did i say Patriotism was bad. Be Patriotic or un-Patriotic. however there shouldn't be and never has been punishment for being Un-Patriotic and hopefully the U.S. will stay that way for quite some time

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sculls

But it is ok to kill someone you deem to have Un-american ideals ie not having the same opinion as you do. That make no sense at all to me.

Elwenil

I personally feel it is more than justifiable to kill someone for treasonous acts.

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msdz

There is so much that can be said for idiots like that in the video protesting. This is something that has happened in the past and will continue to happen cause people have different ideas of how to deal with a situation.
I guess we(all Americans) should cower in a corner and pay off all the bad people in the world like most democrats do and NEVER go to war? I guess we(all Americans again) should just sit idle and let people crap all over us and NEVER do anything about it or just give them money that the government claims we do not have if they wanted to take control of the US?
Not doing anything would be an open invitation for some countries ruler to think we are a push over and waltz right on in and try to get control of the US and these people protesting, would they let them?? I believe they would cause it is the wrong thing for people to stand up and fight for what they believe to be right.

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Rincewind

Seconded. What's this still doing in General Discussion? We already have a thread discussing this in the sandbox that isn't Hate Bait. And some of you have already posted there so you know it exists. This discussion is shameful!

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Razcsak

Its a devotion to an amorphous, meaningless entity. It, like religious faith, can range from being perfectly fine to causing people to do idiotic, violent, dangerous, radical things. There's nothing wrong with being proud of your country, but blind, fervent devotion to it is as wrong as the current radical Islamist groups. Killing people because they don't share that slavic devotion is, in my opinion, a dangerous thing. You are aware that you're advocating killing people for standing in someone else's way, right? This does not sound absurd to you in any way?

I am from the DC metro area, by the way, before you start stereotyping people based on location.

Elwenil: So, you feel that the location they are protesting at is somehow important to their punishment? The fact that they're blocking access to the building doesn't bother you as much as the fact that they're blocking access to a recruiting center. Is this correct? I would rather not continue to make any of the assumptions I did at the very start of this thread. You are outraged (enough to want them painfully dead) that they're blocking access to a recruiting center. The fact that they're blocking access is very secondary to the location they're blocking, or you would be just as outraged at an identical protest at any other location. Am I missing anything?

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Elwenil

I'd be outraged if they did that to me, no matter the location. They are breaking the law, pure and simple and should be punished. It is my opinion that due to the manner that they are breaking the law, and the fact that it is at the location of a Marine recruiting office that their actions are treasonous. Death has long been a viable punishment for treason all around the world, and for good reason.

You people really make me sick. You are almost anti-American in your liberal beliefs and it is your beliefs that I believe will one day destroy America and all our way of life. There must be tough decisions made and people with enough backbone to carry them out in order to preserve our country and our way of life. I do not advocate killing because some BS figment of someone's imagination tells them too. I do advocate the defense of our country against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. It's obvious that people like you have had to sacrifice little to have all the freedoms you enjoy since you put so little faith in the very people who protect your freedoms. Blind devotion? To my own country? Did you not learn what it means to be an American in grade school? Or you of the generation who never had to say the Pledge of Allegiance? If you feel that Patriotism is such a bad thing, perhaps you should move to another country where all it's citizens have no allegiance and fight and struggle to live. Perhaps a visit to Somalia would show you what happens when everyone goes their own way. You should be ashamed for tossing away Patriotism and Allegiance and other things that are vital to what it really means to be an American. I love my country, I love everything it stands for. I may not always agree with it, but I know that I have the power to change it, based on our laws and government. Those who love their freedom should know where those freedoms came from, and what preserves them. You, and those protesters should have more respect for the country that allows them to live their foolish, self centered lives.

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Tempus

Whoah... Elwenil.. You better tone down your rhetoric in this discussion or you will be prohibited from participating in it further. Everybody here is entitled to their opinion, and we all must show respect when addressing each other.

I'd like to take this time to bring up that freedom of speech and expression is an important part of this country's fabric, so if you truly love this country, you should love that part of it just as much.

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El_Gringo_Grande

So much anger for citizens that break the law yet you would give up my liberty for your feeling of safety. And you have no problem killing those that speak out against the government, and the military is simply a part of the government.

Kill those that speak out against the government, take away peoples rights to protect them.

Hmmm..... I see a trend toward something.

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Razcsak

So you feel that military recruitment centers should be granted special dispensation under the law? Would vandalism of the centers likewise be treason? Why is blocking access to a recruitment center deserving of one of the highest charges available under American law? Who, exactly, is it offending, besides the people that are unable to enter?

I love being called anti-American because I'm not a raving defender of The American Way (tm). You would have done well in the McCarthy era, I think. I, at one point, seriously considered joining the Navy as a corpsman and still think about it occasionally. I opted to instead go into civilian nursing since I thought I could help more people in more meaningful ways via that career. If this is the kind of reception I can expect to meet from military or ex-military personnel (I assume, based on your e-tough guy attitude), I might have made the right choice.

Granted. Did I say otherwise anywhere? I do not, however, like the implication that the people who didn't join the military only did it through lack of backbone. It implies that everyone who isn't a military member is, in fact, a coward and morally inferior to a soldier. I resent that and the arrogance implied therein.

You advocate killing because someone stood in another's way. I don't see how that's any better. Nationalism and religion are essentially identical. They create a sense of belonging and groupthink mentalities, encouraging violence against the other. One is a belief in (in my opinion) an entity created by a societal mindset and an important facet of cultural identity and the other is a belief in a societal mindset created by lines on a map. Both are equally arbitrary.

Rah, rah, rah, America is the bestest?

Oh, I had to. I resented it too. What kind of country forces its citizens to pledge allegiance to it? I can and have said it, and meant it. There is a reason the military is currently voluntary-service only, and the pledge should be the same way.

Git out o' ma' country? You are aware that basically any Western country has the same general freedoms, right? America is hardly unique.

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