Elwenil

Agreed, that statement went too far. I should amend it to say something more like "People who feel this way make me feel sick" so it seems less personal. After this post, I will stop participating in this thread willingly. I don't seem to be able to combat the tide of apathetic sensationalism that apparently infects the youth in the US today.

On the subject of free speech, I don't think that anyone should have their freedom of speech taken away but, as I've said before, I don't think that freedom of speech gives a person the right to keep someone from going about their daily life, especially if it has nothing to do with the protester.

Also Razcsak, for the record, I have never served in the military, nor held any sort of US Government position or job. I simply feel that people in general take all their freedoms for granted and don't give credit or respect where it's due. And yes, I firmly believe that if you refuse to give the Pledge of Allegiance, that is your right, but you do not belong in this country. This is not just a place to live and work to some of us. This is our country, our home. We love our country and we revere it's protectors and respect it's leaders.

I have already made it clear that I feel that the protesters committed treason and should be punished accordingly. If this were the McCarthy era, it probably wouldn't have happened, or you can bet they would have been punished. Alas for America the WWII era is gone, as well as the patriotism and brotherhood that existed in that era. The current trend toward being "politically correct" and that it is somehow "cool" to hate your country is disgusting to me. I won't bother to mention what punishment I feel that sort of thing deserves. Either way, I am done with this thread and the useless fight against people too young to know better than to be so nonconformist that they end up conforming to their own cult of self-destruction. Reply if you want, but I won't bother to read it.

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|TG|Elwenil

TurkishDelight

I think that this thread has seen it's life. Though we may all disagree on many things, we are all TG members and share at least one thing in common. If we were all the same, then life would be pretty boring eh? Even though I dislike certain people, they remind me that the good, really is good!

Life is the most amazing roller-coaster ride on Earth. Nothing can touch it....

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|TG-X|Turkish

ScratchMonkey

"Patriot" derives from the Greek word "patris", meaning fatherland. These days we use the euphemism "homeland". To tell me that someone is unpatriotic is to tell me that they don't support the fatherland.

The US was founded on the basis of disrespect for a superpower intent on world domination funded by taxing disenfranchised minorities. Instead of blocking a recruiting center, the protesters marched through the streets of Boston, and were gunned down by the Marines (wearing red coats) holding the city.

Like I've said elsewhere, the war of independence was a waste. There is little respect for those who gave their lives fighting it. Most Americans would be perfectly happy remaining under British imperial rule, supporting an intrusive superpower occupying most of the rest of the world. Out with the old boss, in with the new boss. They look the same to me.

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Guardianx11x

Yup, good point Elwenil...Lets not forget to start rounding up all those pesky asian people and put them in camps for good measure. Or wait, no your right...this isn't the WWII era. We should be rounding up brown people now.

Your "love american or get out" sentiment is highly unamerican. You see, this whole "it's ok to speak out for what you believe even if its against the government" thing...was part of the plan. It is a big part of our national identity. The ideal place you're describing, where these people would be punished or killed, sounds nothing like america and a lot like Germany circa 1938 or present day North Korea/Iran.

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Guardianx11x

You're saying that trading a democracy for a monarchy....would be the same. I honestly dont know if you're joking or being serious.

I mean, basically we'd be canada if we did not rebel against british rule. We wouldn't have become a world superpower or a major part of the world economy. I'd say we did a little more than "out with the old boss, in with the new".

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TheSkudDestroyer

You want all the benefits of America but don't support the war for our independence?

...You're free to leave and live in any other country in the world, if you'd like to do so.

Don't take that personally, but the statement you made is outrageous.

Are you going to say that the Civil War was a waste?

This is what I'd like to call complacency: People make nasty remarks about America, but do little or NOTHING to change ANYTHING. You simply keep doing your own thing. If you really want change, make it happen. Each and every American is capable of amazing things, yet they don't do them. People will continue to complain, say that things should be different. But when will people actually live out their dreams? In death? In another country? You have this life; now.

Don't waste it. If you really have such a distaste for America, do something about it.

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|TG-6th|Skud
BMT Graduate - 320th Training Squadron, Flight 024 - MSgt Romero - "Kids no more!"
30 weeks Keesler AFB, 1W031 - Weather

Razcsak

When they start actually doing something about their beliefs, they get threatened with death from internet tough guys.

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Xen

Skuddy, I would like to point out, that most developed countries actually don't allow US imigration into their countries. You can get a work Visa and live there, but you can not become a citizen of that country. Europe and developed SE Asia are prime examples.

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Curiosity is going to kill this Cat.

ikonic

That is like saying the inventor of the wheel is a dumbass and should have been killed by an angry mob.

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Fenian420

Honestly, you dont like our country or the fact that it stands for freedom instead of paying a pimp then gtfo of it.. You honestly think that thousands of people fought and died because they just felt like it? Imagine trying to start a revolution in a country the size of something like Germany but all spread out verticlly up and down a coastline where you pay taxes like mad so its hard to finance a rise up in arms in the first place. Can you seriously consider the thought of a minuteman? Just a normal husband, brother, sibling, cousin, nephew etc. etc. ready to go to war knowing his chances of wakin up the next day are 1:4 ?


And to livin in different countries.. You can get dual citizenships, meet a nice girl in a foreign country, start living there. denounce US citizenship at US embassy.. Done, slightly more steps to that but you get the point.


Edit: alright yea, got off wrong step as others that posted did I think, but Id doubt people would be content living if Independence was never gained. America was a place for exiles, criminals or people opposing what was the official religion of london at the time. So in my mind its somewhat of a possiblity that America wouldve just become somewhat an area of oppression still like India or Ireland.

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"We seem to have lost. We have not lost. To refuse to fight would have been to lose; to fight is to win. We have kept faith with the past, and handed on a tradition to the future." - Pádraig Mac Pearse

<[TN]FBMachine> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section - Bash.org

Razcsak

Actually, no, you can't. Take Germany for example. Germany will only allow dual citizenship if you were born with it, so you can't naturalize into both. Further, to naturalize in Germany you have to have lived there for at least eight years, held a job, and know German. Being married to a German cuts the time down to three years. That is just the legal requirements for naturalization, in practice, the immigration offices are denying many applications just to stem the influx of immigrants. Its not as easy as you think.

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TheSkudDestroyer

But...

You don't like living in America...? Why not take the time and effort to live some where else?
]
Yes, it'd suck to not have full citizenship... but what does that grant you in most countries? Voting? Do you even vote now?

People need to ask those kind of questions before they point fingers.

Feel free to contact an admin if you truly feel threatened.

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|TG-6th|Skud
BMT Graduate - 320th Training Squadron, Flight 024 - MSgt Romero - "Kids no more!"
30 weeks Keesler AFB, 1W031 - Weather

Fenian420

You sure about the nation transferring thing? Ive met 2 people within the last 4 maybe 5 years that have gotten dual citizenships, one with Canada(doesnt really count I know) and the other was with France. The American French guy I was talking to said that it was hectic to try and get it all done but eventually (less than 8 years I know for a fact) he got in and all that..

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"We seem to have lost. We have not lost. To refuse to fight would have been to lose; to fight is to win. We have kept faith with the past, and handed on a tradition to the future." - Pádraig Mac Pearse

<[TN]FBMachine> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section - Bash.org

Razcsak

No one said I didn't. Some people merely said that I was not welcome in this country.
Yes.

Oh, I'm not. I'm just pointing out that the general impression was "kill them for protesting" which then morphed into "if they felt so strongly about it, why don't they do something?" You can't have it both ways.

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Guardianx11x

This isn't really aimed at anyone specific. But I think the "if you don't like American get out" statement extremely ignorant. It's like asking "if you have problems, run from them" or "if you don't like your parents, get new ones". I say this because the former implies that you do nothing to make your situation better, and the latter illustrated most peoples situation. That they already have a lot invested in being a US citizen and moving simply isn't an option. Those two added together pretty captures the cowardice at lack of rational the statment implies. Basically, it is a cop out for those that can't form a coherent argument, or don’t try to. Personally, when I hear that phrase uttered in a serious tone I assume the speaker is a direct descendent of either their aunt or uncle. If you honestly feel the need to say something like this...think long as hard about it...and if you decide too...still....keep it so yourself.

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