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Old 03-14-2008, 07:45 PM   #121 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

I just finished reading a book by Ralph Peters called "Wars of blood and faith" If you have any interest please read the introduction. I was stunned, it really put my mind to working on how I "feel" about the war and such...

I not rant on..Read it tell me what you think.

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Old 03-14-2008, 11:29 PM   #122 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan View Post
Again, that depends on who you are and what you qualify as effective. Certainly, US soil hasn't been directly attacked successfully since 9/11. Then again, it wasn't directly attacked successfully much before 9/11, either.

However, terrorist attacks on the US military are certainly more effective than they were pre-Iraq invasion; I don't recall us having daily body counts before we set foot over there for a falsified reason. We've put 100k+ troops in the terrorists' back yard; far shorter reach and easier accessibility than some skyscrapers across an ocean. And we spend billions of taxpayer dollars on the war every month instead of on home civil projects. I think that's a far more effective way to take down an enemy; make them erode themselves away instead of spending all of your resources in a futile frontal attack.

You are more right than I think you know. Check these articles out. (PS. Stiglitz is a nobel prize winning economist)

Bin Ladens Plan:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200609/fallows_victory/5

Another good read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...702846_pf.html
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:55 PM   #123 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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It's freaking Berkeley, what do you expect?
Seconded. Berkeley is like an emergency let off valve for extreme left wing behavior.
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:30 PM   #124 (permalink)



 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

They posted a decent counter video that covers this incident.

Berkeley Out Of America Now!
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:31 AM   #125 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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They posted a decent counter video that covers this incident.

Berkeley Out Of America Now!

Good but not good enough....

....I want to see "Code Pink" and the rest of the idiots, shoved off a cliff....
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:32 PM   #126 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Good but not good enough....

....I want to see "Code Pink" and the rest of the idiots, shoved off a cliff....
Someone just got their copy of 300 from Netflix, methinks.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:34 PM   #127 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Originally Posted by Guardianx11x View Post
Oh wow, that is damning evidence there. I'm so happy he completely did nothing like that in the next 12 years. I feel sooooo much safer he is gone.

Basically, when we are standing alone against everyone else on the planet trying to justify our actions...it might benifit us to reevaluate what we have been doing for the past few years and chage our core policies (which will probably happen as soon as bush is out of office).

You must've missed this part of the report so I'll quote it here for you:

"In the years between the two Gulf Wars, UN sanctions reduced Saddam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power. Saddam nurtured this capability with an infrastructure supporting

(1) his own particular brand of state terrorism against internal and external threats,

(2)the state sponsorship of suicide operations, and

(3) organizational relationships and "outreach programs" for terrorist groups. Evidence that was uncovered and analyzed attests to the existence of a terrorist capability and a willingness to use it until the day Saddam was forced to flee Baghdad by Coalition forces."
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Old 03-17-2008, 03:39 PM   #128 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

Good quote, Squid. It's that kind of thing that never gets reported where the common man can see it. Its absence creates an illusion that the administration is hiding important details from us.

I hate mass media, including my local "news" radio station I listen to on my 10 minute drive to work. They hardly ever give a story enough time to give any useful detail. The average person will buy their spin, while I'm sitting there thinking "wtf aren't they telling me?". On rare occasions I'll hear a breaking story with a full interview. Later in the day as I drive home, the same interview gets pared down to something barely resembling what I heard on the way in, with none of the illuminating details included.
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Old 03-17-2008, 07:48 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

All I can say is, if things continue the way they are going. We are going to have US made bombs going off all over the US. The bombs infront of the NYC Recruiting office all lend themselves to one thing. Binladen has won. He will no longer have to bomb us because the hatred and fear he created will cause us to do all the attacks ourselves. And, mark my words, it will get worse. We have a growing swell in this country that has learned that, to get the government to react, all you have to do is blow something up. This mentality will tear the US apart, and even though you hate Code Pink, they have just as much right to say things that people agree with. It's called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, something that every armed forces personel are sworn to protect above all else. So, even if you disagree with the politics of these events, remember, everyone get's their say, whether it's viewed as good or bad, right or wrong, none of that matters. As soon as you start wanting to shut people up for what they say, you help supress freedoms all of us have. Soon, it's no longer Code Pink, it some other entity that you don't like, now they have to shut up, and the cycle continues until we no longer have a 1st amendment. And then we start with other amendments because once no one can disagree with the leadership, none can oppose other changes. Now, this maybe a bit extreme, but we already lost certain freedoms after 9/11. Try making an overseas call without being listen in on. Or that telecom industries haen't kept your call history secret. You can bet that the government has looked at your phone records and anyone on it that they might suspect is or has broken the law (read pot dealer for those that smoke) in the past will now be on a list. And your now on another list as an associate. Remember, to save money, the Bush administration tried to lump the War on Drugs with the War on Terror. They tried to say that all drugs being sold were funding terrorism. Hopefully, people realize that is not the case. Goto California and you can see where, because of Medicinal Marajuana laws, people have gotten permits for growing from the state. I can almost garentee that all that money being produced is going strait into state coffers, which helps them ween themselves off Federal dollars. The Fed's have tried for years now to get states to be completely dependent on them for funding, and in some states it works. Why would the Fed's want states dependent? Simple, the Fed's can dictate policy with the threat of removing funding for said projects. Guess who get's hurt with that mentality? That state's citizens, not the US.
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:33 AM   #130 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Originally Posted by USN_Squid View Post
You must've missed this part of the report so I'll quote it here for you:

"In the years between the two Gulf Wars, UN sanctions reduced Saddam's ability to shape regional and world events, steadily draining his military, economic, and military powers. The rise of Islamist fundamentalism in the region gave Saddam the opportunity to make terrorism, one of the few tools remaining in Saddam's "coercion" toolbox, not only cost effective but a formal instrument of state power. Saddam nurtured this capability with an infrastructure supporting

(1) his own particular brand of state terrorism against internal and external threats,

(2)the state sponsorship of suicide operations, and

(3) organizational relationships and "outreach programs" for terrorist groups. Evidence that was uncovered and analyzed attests to the existence of a terrorist capability and a willingness to use it until the day Saddam was forced to flee Baghdad by Coalition forces."
I didn't miss that part. Yes those are all things we look down upon. But in reality they do no distinguish him as being any worse than any of his neighbors...

Again, we went in and destroyed Iraqs government. Even if we had confirmed this information (as we have with other nations) and had not suspected them of having WMDs we wouldn't have attacked them. As it turns out, from a world perspective those actions he was taking are quite trivial. If you are impressed by things like that you should probably read about some african nations.

PS: I'd like to hear the reactions to the articles in my previous post...surprised nobody had anything to say about that.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:45 PM   #131 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Originally Posted by Guardianx11x View Post
You are more right than I think you know. Check these articles out. (PS. Stiglitz is a nobel prize winning economist)

Bin Ladens Plan:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200609/fallows_victory/5

Another good read:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...702846_pf.html
Stiglitz is also the mascot of a facebook group that asks "Joseph Stiglitz: Crappy Economist or Crappiest Economist?"

The op-ed in the Washington Post you cite is part of a campaign by him and a fellow author to advertise a recent book. From the Post article, it's clear he faults a major cost of the war on irrespinsible tax cuts "on the rich," claiming that not enough taxes are being collected.

A mere 7 days later he says that rich people pay too much in taxes!

Quote:
...California will pay a disproportionate share for the war is because its residents are so rich. California already contributes a disproportionate share of federal taxes -- more than 14% of the total last year from a state that makes up only 12% of the nation's population. The tax burden is especially high in the Bay Area, greater Los Angeles and San Diego, places where individual taxpayers pay some of the highest total federal taxes, according to a recent study of 3,000 counties across the country. The average household in San Francisco is already paying $36,409 annually in federal taxes (combining income tax, payroll tax, excise tax, estate tax and corporate tax) -- the second-highest federal tax burden in the United States.

This means that Californians are already paying more to support the war effort than most Americans. Expect that burden to get considerably larger no matter what happens to incomes in the years ahead.
This guy is just trying to sell his book. And I don't know too many economists that don't visibly wince when hs name is mentoned: he's done about as much to earn his Nobel Prize as Al Gore did for his.
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Old 03-18-2008, 11:14 PM   #132 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

Wow, we pay 14% of taxes for 12% of the benefits? Even more reason to stop collecting taxes here and stop paying us benefits. But of course that would take control out of the hands of the Feds and put it back in the hands of State and local governments. Can't have that.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:13 AM   #133 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

It doesn't say 12% of the benefits. It says 12% of the population. I'm sure there's a statistic you could find out there somewhere that would compare taxes paid vs benefits received, but this isn't it.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:15 PM   #134 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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Stiglitz is also the mascot of a facebook group that asks "Joseph Stiglitz: Crappy Economist or Crappiest Economist?"

Hahaha, if I win a nobel prize...I hope nobody starts a facebook group that discredits me. My career would be over.

Oh, by the way...did you actually read what he won the nobel prize for there champ?
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:49 AM   #135 (permalink)
 
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Re: Berkeley council tells Marines to leave

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It doesn't say 12% of the benefits. It says 12% of the population. I'm sure there's a statistic you could find out there somewhere that would compare taxes paid vs benefits received, but this isn't it.
True. But I'd be happy if the DC round trip got eliminated even if California got a net gain, effectively stealing from other States. I see no value in having DC controlling local governments with the power of the purse, slipping out a bit for its own profit along the way.
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