Gambit7

Does anyone here actually realize that currently the wealthy upper class actually pay less taxes then middle class folk? This is before you factor in deductions and tax incentives.
The example I gave prior was actually before the Bush tax cuts... post-cuts it's even worse. I'm getting killed while my boss worth 135million is sitting pretty.

p.s.
If my tax dollars were actually spent where they should be I might not care. But, as of now I'm hardpressed to see where my money goes... aside from inside some wealthy folks' pockets. America is all about raping the working class - period. It's not about building up the country, infrastructure, education, research, etc.... our country is a joke - double period. Honestly, if I was able to find work in Norway... I'd probably move there. And they're a socialist govt., live in the dark much of the year, and it's damned cold.

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COUNTER=OPS

Everyone seems to forget capital gains tax. Short and long term. I know some of you invest. I take it in the shorts some years. Also what about bonuses?? Mine is taxed at 42%!! I usually adjust my withholding around that time.

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MagnaCentipede

Everyone? No, only people who don't pay capital gains because they can't be arsed to gain on their capital because they're too busy telling Evil Rich People that they're evil because they don't think all their earnings should be stolen from them.

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xTYBALTx

On point A) I agree. On point B), well hey, if it doesn't work out then it won't be done. Simple as that. A lot of people will choose to live on the money alone and that's their choice. No problem with that. That's their choice.

One of the great benefits of a negative income tax is that it replaces all of the unemployment relief and social security programs. It is very simple, so there's less overhead for public servants. No one is needed to assess the veracity of claims, as with unemployment and social needs programs - the money is handed out to everyone for them to spend as they see fit.

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A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek

Gambit7

None of this requires an honest days' work to acquire... that's why it's taxed so heavily. And I have no problem with that. If you yearn to bleed a speculative market, then you'll bleed taxes. Take it or leave it.

Bonuses/gifts should be given as such in cash or some other such form that's untaxable. If it's taxable that means the person giving it stands to gain from it - which kind of defeats the purpose of a "gift."

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Catman1975

I always hear this, but how does anyone know that the upper class pay less than the middle class? You've seen his tax return?

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El_Gringo_Grande

I don't think bonuses are taxed any higher than normal pay. That 42% is the sum of all taxes (FICA, state, federal etc) plus a pad just in case it bumps you into the next high tax bracket.

I don't think you have to have anything at all withheld from you paycheck or bonus as long as you can save and pay it all on 15 April.

Capital gains really only hurts the mid level investor. If you hold it for a year then the tax is even smaller. And if you are in the lower tax brackets the tax is only 5%.

Large investors can offset the tax from selling off the poor performing properties that they are very likely to have.

But, according to a wealthy acquaintance, you don't need to sell anything to gain from your investments. With a large portfolio you can get very low interest rate loans because they are secured. There are ways you can use the interest to either pad your income or be able to deduct much of it from other taxes. Kinda like borrowing against your 401(k) but different.

That is another thing. PUT AS MUCH MONEY INTO YOUR 401(K) AS YOU CAN! It has a huge impact on your financial well being. It provides a wonderful place to borrow from because you pay yourself the interest. It defers your taxes and that has a profound impact on overall tax burden.

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I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
- "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" - Emerson
- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
- If software were as unreliable as economic theory, there wouldn't be a plane made of anything other than paper that could get off the ground. Jim Fawcette

leejo

Hardly. If I invest $10,000, where do you think that money came from? I swear and pinky-promise that the money bunny didn't deliver it in a basket with a bow.

I have roofed homes, hauled logs out of yards and shoveled mud out of mansion basements after hurricanes, washed dishes, sold lamps, waited tables, studied late at night, scrimped, saved, worried, and kept my mouth shut at jobs I've HATED working for people who SUCKED.

The money I have has taked a LIFETIME of honest days' work to acquire.

I do speculate and probably spend more time reading about markets and businesses (sounds fun, right? Or maybe more like "work"?) than most of you spend playing video games.

I don't get bent about the capital gains tax (although I'd love to see it disappear) - I just think of it as friction, same as commissions. But it is hard work getting the capital in the first place, risking that money is a difficult and, to the novice, agonizing act of will and speculation requires enormous self-discipline. You simply can't appreciate how much discipline it requires until you do it. It is very very hard work.

With regard to another post that asserts that rich pay less in taxes, well that just flies in the face of reality.

Class warfare is a dumb way to spend one's time, IMO.

leejo

Word. Make your money work for you, and not the other way around.

xTYBALTx

I'm not really sure what an "honest days' work" has to do with how much something should be taxed in the first place. Last I checked, the world is primarily based upon capitalism - and in capitalism income has no relationship with "work." Just ask your gardener.

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A policy of freedom for the individual is the only truly progressive policy. -F.A. Hayek