Jimmy Jammer

Another question is what is faith and does it need to be confined to a pre-established recognized religious group?

Could it not be a set of standards and morals that guide you through life that have no religious tag but you do believe in a spiritual power of some kind that guides us?

Food for thought...JJ

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|TG-55| Infantry Division

sordavie

Another minor tidbit: The Europe experienced an enlightenment a hundred years prior to the industrial revolution. While the population predominantly classified itself as Christian, there was a huge difference between the post enlightenment Christian Europe and the pre-enlightenment Christian Europe. But, more importantly, influential thinkers attacked not only the church but religion in general; and the philosophical landscape shifted towards empiricism and natural philosophy--the beginnings of modern science. Compare to the rest of the world, which did not experience this.

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Steeler

So rigorous intellectual conflict and social upheaval against dogma and accepted norms creates an environment that fosters innovation and societal advancement? Who'da thunk it?

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Long Bow

I must say I'm impressed with the level of intelect and respect being used in this thread. Usually any thread that relegion or god(s) enter into turn ugly rather fast. Cheers to all for the maturity.


Im an atheist i.e. don't believe in any god, age 29. I fear saying that, as I'm usually a minority in that sense. Plus I don't have any real sound argument against a relegious argument other then its my personal choice to not believe, no facts involved really.

If I were to believe, for some reason, I would like to believe in a more First Nations (Native/Indian - no offence intended if I used the improper terms) belief system. It appears as a far fetched old mentality of looking at things but the messages seem true to me and something I can relate to. It has alot to do with my connection to nature and earth I guess. I can almost believe in a mother earth/nature ideal. Strange that I don't believe and could easily choose to believe yet I can't let my self.

On topic, sort of, I was talking to a fellow worker about relegion and kids one day. He was Catholic and had been his whole life. We started talking about a freedom to believe in what you want which we agreed on. I asked him about if he had kids what role would relegion play etc. He said in one breath that its up to his kids to decide what they believe. In the next breath he said but of course there going to be going to a Catholic school. From my perspective that was absurd to say they have a choice but while their most impresionable they will be indoctrinated with only one religous view. I wonder how well a relegious school would go over that showcased many relegions allowing the children to follow their own paths? What are peoples thoughts on relegious schools and my above experince? Please know I'm not trying to start a flame war or disrespect this persons disecion, just create discussion.

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Jimmy Jammer

It is quite a telling sign that this many people can have a civil conversation about such a sensitive topic...I think this is great.

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|TG-55| Infantry Division

AMosely

I'm not overly surprised at everyone being able to discuss this maturely. I wouldn't have started the thread if I thought it was going to turn nasty. I do appreciate everyone staying on topic, which is purely statistical in nature, possibly mixed with a little forecasting.

I haven't kept a tally but it seems to me that of those of us who posted our own religious affiliation data seem to be following the general consensus of the poll. A significant number of people in our broad age group (say, 20-40 years of age) seem to have been born and raised into religion but have grown out of it or away from it. By significant I mean that in previous generations the vast majority of Americans have kept their childhood/familial religion. This poll, and our informal discussion of it, seems to indicate that trend is in a decline with the current generation of Americans.

As a non-believer, I find this trend encouraging for a number of reasons. I would imagine that believers would strongly disagree.

El_Gringo_Grande

I didn't state my status earlier.

I don't know what I am. To ignorant to make a decision.

I know the older and closer to death I get the better some kind of religion looks. I don't really like the fact but it is at least truthful.

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Sen. John McCain (AZ) For President '08
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I’m not racists, I have republican friends. Radio show host.
- "The essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity". -Jacob Burkhardt
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- "People should not be afraid of it's government, government should be afraid of it's People." - Line from V for Vendetta
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sc1ence

I am a card carrying member of American Atheists. My wife is an atheist. My 5 year old daughter is an atheist. My 3 year old son thinks cartoons are real (he will come around eventually.)

I would say that 40% of the people I know are atheists. But I hang around with higher edu types which lean far more towards atheism than most segments of the population.

I was raised a catholic. I gave up believing in any god about round about age 22. I am very committed to my atheist position.

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tau_neutrino

I've been atheist my whole life. My parents are non-practicing Buddhists and were never religious.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Switch

I'd like to point you all to the Income Distribution of Religious Traditions comparison.

The numbers don't lie... jews are rich. Mazel Tov!

Hindus are in a close second with all those hard working convenience stores and gas stations.

---edit

Upon further review, it appears that Hindus have the highest rate of post grad studies, so I withdraw my fun stereotype of gas stations and convenience stores and replace it with the new stereotype of pharmacists and biomedical engineers, and dentists.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

† Disciple †

Yeah I agree survival of the fittest, thats why Noah (a man who walked with god) lived to 950 years of age and the rest of humanity who sinned, perished in a great flood lol.

Anywho i'm as practising baptist aged 20, merry old England.

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Tarenth

You also forget that a good deal of the doctors and nurses coming into this country are also from India and Pakistan or Asyrian. Look up your local Doctors and count the number of Dr. Singh in your area. 17 locally here. Nurses are more impressive since there are probably 26 Singh employees. Both the Jewish and Indian fate and cultures promotes hard work and improvement from such. Lots of people work hard, get high degrees, then pursue high paying jobs because of that. Besides, the 'gas station, convenience stores, and hotels' (yes I added hotels) were actually sterotypes for a good reason. They all employ a lot of people (especially the hotels) and make it easier for family members and friends to emigrate into the US from abroad because they'll have a job waiting for them.


I'd +rep people in this thread but its just too bloody bad I have to spread more rep around first. Nutbunnies.

Personally I think religion, in abstract, is important to humanity. However organized religions are not and actually harmful. Religion is a belief in something bigger and higher than yourself ultimately. Its to say that you are not always in control of everything in your life and so you must make the best of what you can with what you have and improve on that. Organized religions are that, with a heavy dose of commercialism and control thrown in. "If you don't do this then this will happen" or "Believe in this or bad things will happen" are common lines of thought in organized religion and if you go back far enough there are quite sinister reasons for them. The one thing I can agree with them about is their excellent PR and selling points. Charity and morality are wonderful sells and actually help humanity to some extent because it improves how people act towards each other. If its wrong to steal then people won't steal. It doesn't matter if its wrong to steal because some all powerful being says so or because the government says so. So people join the religion who wouldn't be thieves because they know their fellow followers won't steal from them.

If you look into all organized religions they have such 'give and take' hidden in their doctrine somewhere and you can probably figure out why it was put there.


As for atheism? Atheism is probably a contradiction in itself because to acknowledge that something does not exsist is to acknowledge that it exsists to not be present in the first place. Its also a very limiting doctrine of beliefs which borders on extremist. A great deal of people probably have Atheism and Agnostic beliefs mixed up. There really isn't anything wrong with a belief in a power bigger and higher than yourself. If we believe in government we call it patriotic, if we believe in a set system of mannerisms we can call it chiverous, and if we believe in a larger system beyond our exsistance we could call it religious.

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My sanity is not in question...
It was a confirmed casualty some time ago.

Switch

I like everything you said but that -- thats kinda dumb.

I do not believe that santa clause and the easter bunny exist. Does that mean that I must first say they exist to say that they dont exist?

There is nothing more extremist about Atheism than Theism.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...

Jimmy Jammer

I believe that ship sailed without me...I am in the dingy...

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|TG-55| Infantry Division

Switch

When our cruise ship turns around we'll pick you up. For now I'll just jettison some supplies and a few life rafts.

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|TG|Switch

Better known as:
That noob who crashed the chopper.
That noob who ran over the mine.
That noob who TK'd me with a sniper rifle.
That noob who hit that APC at 300m with light AT! Our APC...