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Old 03-28-2008, 05:05 PM   #46 (permalink)
 
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled"

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And if you could explain why Abiogenesis is a problem for evolution.
That one's easy: Because no one has the slightest clue how, or if, it works, and its a critical requirement of the rest of Naturalistic Evolution.

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So this thing you plug in, what makes it plausible? Why is an intelligent designer plausible? Because you believe it to be plausible or do you have any kind of evidence that make it plausible?
The official argument of ID does not concern itself with what you plug in, only with establishing that there is a hole that needs to be filled by something, whatever that something may be. You can learn a little about the characteristics of the something by examining the shape of the hole, but you are still fundamentally limited by the fact that you are looking at a hole rather than an object.

That said, I've got a pretty good personal opinion on what that something is, but the type of evidence I use for this question is theological rather than scientific. Theologically, the Christian God is very plausible to me and Zeus is very implausible. Scientifically the best that can be said is that Zeus doesn't fit the shape of the hole very well.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:10 PM   #47 (permalink)
 
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled"

Evolution is a functional process that exists and has been demonstrated to exist. There is no debate about whether or not evolution is real. I have watched cultures in a petri dish evolve due to mutation in front of my eyes (after pressing the 'zap with UV light button'). Cichlid fishes evolve so quickly that we can't even keep species cataloged in lake victoria. Pathogens routinely evade our attempts to kill them with drugs and antibiotics. Every single piece of life has libraries of evidence in deactivated DNA sitting in their respective genomes that show the steps they took in their evolutionary process. If you care to watch an embryo develop you will see as it quickly jumps through stages in its evolutionary history creating and then losing vestigial limbs/organs/orifices... and with no surprise fetuses from different species follow the same steps, hinting at a shared lineage.

Lets not argue about the merits of evolution.

As far as 'ID' the re branded version of creationism, it is not SCIENCE to postulate a 'theory' that cannot be tested and validated. People who support ID constantly make the mistake of thinking they have any understanding of what science is... and so they think their assertions are just as valid as those of scientists who follow a process of empiricism, peer review, and validation that is known collectively as 'scientific method'. Id proponents use 'sciency words' thinking that science is simply a matter of stating your belief with an inflated vocabulary.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:57 PM   #48 (permalink)

 
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled"

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In general, the existence of any question to which Evolution does not have an answer is evidence for ID. As soon as Evolution finds an answer to the question, it stops being evidence for ID.
Sounds like a philosophical position by your description.

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The official argument of ID does not concern itself with what you plug in, only with establishing that there is a hole that needs to be filled by something, whatever that something may be.
So why is it called "intelligent design" instead of bio-hole-ology?
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Old 03-29-2008, 03:57 PM   #49 (permalink)
 
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled"

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Old 03-29-2008, 05:02 PM   #50 (permalink)
 
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Re: Ben Stein's "Expelled"

LOL that is hilarious!
My favorite line
'He's smarter than you, he studied biology'
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