Steeler

Unless they're a car dealership. Or a hedge fund.

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Chewy

I don't hate but what bothers me is that she thinks her beauty is all she needs to get a man. And the guy made a perfectly good response... beauty will fade. And then I would ask, what else does she have to offer once that fades? Money and looks only gets a couple so far...

And btw, that was flying around in the e-mail circuits a few months ago. It was definitely fun to read!

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TheFeniX

Yes and no. A lot of people come to the conclusion that they want reliability more than just good-looks. And if you base your criteria for dating based on looks and are willing to move on based upon those criteria, what stops the same thing from happening to you?

I rather, you know, date a girl who is actually happy to date me. Not my money, not my car, not my house. Me.

Not all good-looking women are gold-diggers, nor are all more homely looking women paragons of virtue. But in effect, a woman who focuses on her looks as a selling point and a man's monetary value as his selling point has made a decidedly terrible argument for a long-term relationship.

She goes on about how she was able to snag a guy who made 250k a year and that's it (nothing about how he treated her or vice versa), and then going on about how women were dating more wealthy men when she was more attractive and smarter (or so she claims) than they were.

These are the exact girls that guys in high school strove to try and date, then realize they're shallow attention whores when they graduate and hit reality. I remember a few of these girls in high school and I sure wouldn't pass up a drunken grope-fest with one, but I wouldn't base spending the rest of my life with a woman off that.

Yes. Yes it is.

Having money? Likely not. Money can be lost. And if a woman's criteria for marrying you is based around your bank roll, what happens when you don't have that kind of money? Further, like the poster said, if I'm trading my money for good-looks, what happens when those looks go? Can I trade the woman in for a better looking one? Sounds far fetched? It's happened to two of my friends mothers as their dad's hit middle age. The women gave up their time and bodies to raise the children, then were left behind when their dad's wanted to "trade up."

Hilariously, this was the exact phrase used by one of their dad's when I was in Cisco class with him.

You're seriously asking?

How many women have you gone up to and said "I don't care about your personality, I'm just talking to you because you're read-end is out of this world. I'd like to hook up for sex and maybe if you're good enough I'll call you the next day."?

I will grant, I'm a straight honesty kind of guy, but it's easier for me because I've never really been the "hit it and quit it" kind. But, I remember having a discussion with a girl who flat-out said "I won't date a guy with a hairy chest." Yea, she was being honest, but it was a little insulting to hear such shallow terms for dating.

And on the other side, I've met guys who would only date a certain class of women (typically based around specific measurements). Sure, they did pretty good in high school and college, but have had a terrible batting average since joining reality and realizing most women want something more than just six-packs abs and cheesy pick-up lines.

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Chewy

Haha... a razor fixes that real quick!

Well said Fenix, several great lines in there to compliment you on but I'm too lazy at the moment.

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ScratchMonkey

Are you saying I'm shallow because I won't date a guy with a hairy chest?

Dating based on looks doesn't strike me as that different from dating based on gender. There are guys I find cuter than some women. (And I don't want to date either.) If we're dating with the intent to have sex, it would be nice if the other was more attractive than one's hand. If we're not dating with intent to have sex, then why not just be friends with another member of the same gender and forget all the complexity of the mating dance?

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ScratchMonkey

This woman is a prostitute (or sex worker, if you like). I fully support prostitution. It's a service industry, similar to acting or waiting tables or scrubbing out sewage tanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COYOTE

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Chewy

I think changing your name to "StrangeMonkey" might fit you better!

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SmokingTarpan

I'm not the naïve person to say that looks don't matter, because they do. I could have all sorts of things in common with a woman, could enjoy spending tons of time with her, but if I don't find her physically attractive (note: physically attractive does not mean super model), then there won't be any dating. However, while looks do matter, they're not the only thing that matter.

Faced with a choice of an average yet attractive girl that can hold a conversation or a beauty queen that can only turn to the left, I'll be taking the average one.

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[squadl]
"I am the prettiest african-american, vietnamese..cong..person." -SugarNCamo

RedForman

Of course, then there's the whole issue of the attractive girl who you can also have great coversations with....who just has the most...horrendous...breath...

that may be from a personal experience, I'm just saying...

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"I've been working since I was sixteen. I fought two in wars. Hell, I've killed people. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy it..."
-- Red Forman

|TG-Irr|RedForman

TheFeniX

If that's a absolute 1/0 value in your dating preferences: then yes.

If you said, "I would prefer to date a guy with a clean-shaven chest." Then no.

"Dating to have sex" would be a pretty good definition of "shallow" because you're going in with the intent of not developing a strong emotional bond. And that's ok when both parties are fully informed.

This isn't a black/white area you're trying to define as one. You do realize you can date with having sex and an actual relationship involved? This is a woman who wants to get married. Marriage has a few things attached to it most times: equality in the relationship, sex, kids, family, etc.

A woman defining the value of a relationship based primarily on money is probably not the best bet in a marriage situation. Are these values the average man wants taught to his daughters? Even his sons?

This woman may have mentioned in passing her intelligence, but she made it a point to tell just how pretty she was (spectacularly) and also compared her beauty to other women. It's her selling point and she demands money in exchange for access to this beauty. How is this different than a prostitute? Why wouldn't a man considering dating her just go pick up a few hookers?

I wouldn't really consider expecting a person to have decent breath as "shallow" because we're talking basic hygiene and something easily rectified (brushing your teeth and breath mints/suger-free gum).

Shaving your chest is an involved process that requires dedication to keep up. A guy like me would need to shave almost daily. It's no different than me demanding bikini waxes or a girl to remain shaven at all times. I might prefer it, but who am I to make demands and to filter out those immediately who don't meet that criteria? How is that not shallow on my part?

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ScratchMonkey

I completely agree. It's the package that makes one attractive, not isolated features. I like Hugh Hefner's notion of the "girl next door", even if his magazine doesn't always shoot for that ideal. Part of the package is what's between the ears.

But I also consider there to be show-stoppers, and I don't think those make one shallow. For example, I don't date guys. And chubby doesn't appeal to me at all. I don't want a smoker. Being stupid is a show-stopper.

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Rincewind

I think this woman will have a better chance of finding a man:

**NSFW TEXT**

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/589072628.html

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No matter how far a wizard goes, he will always come back for his hat. --T. Pratchett

<---- You know you're getting old when you rely on your forum meta-data to remind you how old you are.

Required Reading for all TG sandboxers

Gambit7

If we were all Mormons none of this would be a problem.

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ScratchMonkey

I don't see these women as problems. I want to see more women competing with them for our business.

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Gambit7

Another interesting fact about this ad is that since it was placed in/for Manhattan, she really had very little chance of it getting a response. NYC has an over 2-1 girl:guy ratio. It's one of the themes behind the show "Sex and the City." Fact is, women in NYC have a hard time finding ANY men, let alone "good ones."

So basically if you're a moderately successful man and live in NYC, you can pretty much have the pick of the female litter. If you're a woman looking for a good man, then you shouldnt be looking in NYC. The odds are against you (especially in this economy). It's sort of like Russia post WW2; you've got gaggles of spindly Ukrainian supermodels dating whoever they can find (hence internet wives) because most of the men in the country are 6 feet under from the war.

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