Fenian420

Nah im pretty sure If I was in a trench with 3 naked women also Id say screw it, keep my head down, wait for the battle to be over and just observe.

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<[TN]FBMachine> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section - Bash.org

INSUNABULA

First of all it's supposed to be an equal world, and although ALL areas of the military aren't viable for women, every effort should be made to ensure that avenues remain open for them to have the option of military service.

The big reason why there are question marks about the enrolement of women on the front lines is that of rape. If a man is a POW he is interrogated. If a woman is a POW then she is interrogated and raped continuously until she is broken.

Second of all we are supposed to have MEN fighting battles not BOYS. If you can train a man to kill another human being then you can train him to ignore the differences in the sexes. If not then he isn't mature enough mentally to be responsible for the lives of other people (those of his squad mates and company).

As with all things women have a valid role to play in the armed forces, finding that role is within our realm of intelligence and wisdom.

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CingularDuality

Why in the world would they be naked? And what makes you think that women are at all attractive after a few weeks worth of dirt, grime and other funk cover them instead of makeup and perfume?

There's no difference between men and women in this regard. Many of our male POWs are raped.

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_Romulus_

Nothing like a female grunt back on base after being out on an exercise, eh?



This is especially prevalent in the Afghanistan theater, and one of the primary reasons Russian soldiers would usually commit suicide before being captured.

I've got zero problem with women serving as combat troops. In fact, I believe they should share equal obligations(and opportunities ) of service, such as registering for the draft or fighting as an infantry soldier. However, as we cannot trust thousands of young troops not to bang each other when housed in a coed environment(It happens enough already, believe me ) , we are left with few options of how to control the situation. Segregation is one. But until we can somehow remove gender as a part of the equation, things are complex.

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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- John Stuart Mill

INSUNABULA

I understand that, I should have carried my point further by saying that once raped women then birth children that are used as emotional blackmail.

I'm proud to be a man but topics like this dispair me

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_Romulus_

Only under the rarest of circumstances when fighting an enemy such as those we face in the Middle East are POWs actually allowed to live that long. Insurgents would rather kill them on video than use them for any political leverage(which they know won't get them anything ) .

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War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
- John Stuart Mill

CingularDuality

Wow, I've never heard of that. Where did this happen?

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Rincewind

Hopefully, just in his mind

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Razcsak

The only explanation I can see for refusing to allow women who meet the physical requirements on front-line duty is that male soldiers are (if I am remembering some of the IDF studies I read a while back) much more likely to break cover if they see a female soldier get wounded or killed.

One of my friends is currently training in the Finnish army, which does allow women (volunteer only, unlike the male conscription) on combat duties. While they have separate housing on bases, they sleep and serve together on ships. He reports no problems that he's heard of, so apparently the "they can't sleep together" thing isn't a problem in the Finnish military. Go figure, maybe its just American prudishness.

edit: While I understand that the point I mentioned is a good one, I somewhat disagree with it. If people can learn to deal with their comrades dying, they can get over their outdated sexist tendencies and stop viewing women as objects that need to be protected.

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Fenian420

Yea but if your in the trenches too then its only gonna be the same and Im not saying women you fight along side with would be naked im saying 'if'. A simple way to get men not to rape their fellow soldiers is to say; if you rape them we terminate you through torture. Froget what his name was (ancient ruler, more strict than your grandpa...) Eye for an eye, leg for a leg. Might have to set a couple of examples but things will change.

As for the surrender thing and rape.. One way to provide some morale for the soldiers, you either fight to the death or get raped..

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"We seem to have lost. We have not lost. To refuse to fight would have been to lose; to fight is to win. We have kept faith with the past, and handed on a tradition to the future." - Pádraig Mac Pearse

<[TN]FBMachine> i got kicked out of barnes and noble once for moving all the bibles into the fiction section - Bash.org

ScratchMonkey

A similar argument applies to firefighters and other rescue workers.

The problem here isn't whether they're allowed in, but whether we can continue to require the same physical standards, knowing that fewer women will qualify, and not suffer nerfing of the standards to avoid claims of "discrimination".

(BTW, at 125 pounds and 5'11", I'm one of those guys who'd be too weak to operate those controls.)

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TheFeniX

I think that has something to do with a woman having more to prove that a man does when it comes to combat. I've seen very few boring female MMA fights. These women are mainly just limited by physical constraints, not mental.

People seem to immediately think "Women must be able to take more punishment than men." I would be more inclined to believe a female martial artist would be more dedicated because she's a woman in a predominantly male sport.

I've seen a lot a male fighters who probably just won a street fight once and decided they could cut it in a professional sport. They also figure "I'm tough, I can do this." They get into it because they think they can and they think that society wants them to.

A woman on the other hand has no such societal influence. The men don't want them there. The general male MMA fighter wants a woman bare-foot, pregnant, in front of the stove. Others might not say it, but they're thinking it.

So, a guy tells you he fights in MMA, boxing, karate, etc. "Cool, that guy must be tough." A woman tells you she fights for a living "WTF?"

Back to my original point: it's not that women are naturally tougher. It's that the a larger percentage of ones in MMA and other fighting sports aren't kidding themselves: they take the punishment because this is actually want they want to do and they've prepared themselves to get hurt. Many guys just fight (both in the street and in amateur bouts) possibly because they're idiots.

Are you being coy? The punishment for raping a female member of the military should be (and is) the same as for doing it back in the states. If anything, it's harsher from what I've heard of court martials and military prisons.

The problem is many rape cases in the military go unreported. This is true for state-side rape cases as well. It might be shameful for a man to rape a woman in America, but we're fooling ourselves if we think that society doesn't place shame on the woman as well. How many times have you heard the phrase "She was asking for it."?

Saying "Women might be raped in the military" isn't an argument against allowing women in the military. They understand the risks. That comment is more of an attack against the mentality of the service itself. You don't cut women out because some soldiers are scum and the precedents sets as they are right now (reporting a rape might destroy a male soldiers career, but it will almost certainly destroy the female's military career).

You solve this problem by changing the underlying mentality, not resulting to Hammurabi and other archaic law codes. Besides, what good will threatening to torture someone for rape be when the guy knows the service will do everything it can to protect him? You could offer death for the smallest offenses. Won't do much good if it's never enforced.

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