Opinion article from local paper - Page 6

**_Ender_** · 09-27-2004, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Skeet shooting for example.

Self-Defense for another one (and before someone even suggests that this is the same as Dudeman's statement, consider this....You buy home/rental insurance to protect yourself in case your house/apartment catches on fire, it doesn't mean you are going to go out and set your house/apartment on fire.)

Gun collecting

Marksmen courses

3 of the 4 would be considered plaything..

the self-defense one is just

Now I am not saying what dudeman said was correct (i know better then to argue guns around here), I am however just saying that 3 of the 4 things you stated are what he said. Playthings.

IceCold · 09-27-2004, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

Now I am not saying what dudeman said was correct (i know better then to argue guns around here), I am however just saying that 3 of the 4 things you stated are what he said. Playthings.

So what? Baseball bats kill people. Should they be banned?

Isn't it more logical to simply (and harshly) punish people that use any tool to harm another person illegally?

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 02:40 PM

Ender pretty much got my point across. Thank you, good sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCold

So what? Baseball bats kill people. Should they be banned?

Isn't it more logical to simply (and harshly) punish people that use any tool to harm another person illegally?

The reason guns are a hot button and baseball bats aren't is mainly the indiscrimnate nature of ranged weaponry coupled with the utter lethality of the gun itself. Kids don't die while sitting on their porch steps when a gang member beats another to death with a baseball bat, as opposed to a driveby spray of bullets.

THAT'S why there's an anti-gun lobby, and no anti-bat lobby.

IceCold · 09-27-2004, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

THAT'S why there's an anti-gun lobby, and no anti-bat lobby.

Why doesn't that lobby focus its attention on the real problem and create an anti-gang lobby? Thugs that commit drive by shootings are already breaking multiple laws. That's not stopping them. Do you honestly think that one more law is going to concern them? Do you think that taking away the tools for law abiding citizens to defend themselves from these type of thugs is the answer?

IceCold · 09-27-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

the indiscrimnate nature of ranged weaponry

Could you clarify this statement for me? I don't understand what is "indiscriminate" about a gun...

wickerman · 09-27-2004, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Why doesn't that lobby focus its attention on the real problem and create an anti-gang lobby

Because then they would become the target of people claiming they were using the anti-gang lobby to unfairly target minorities. Did you forget we're living in America? No one here is responsible for their actions, it's ALL the fault of greedy corporations and their products and middle aged, rich, white men.

It's not my fault I'm fat, it's McDonald's fault for selling me burgers.
It's not the crips/bloods fault they killed an innocent kid in a drive by, it's Smith and Wesson's for making the gun to begin with.

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCold

Could you clarify this statement for me? I don't understand what is "indiscriminate" about a gun...

There exists a space with ranged weaponry whereby, if one is between the shooter and the target, one is said to be "in the crossfire". Unlike all but the wildest melees, an innocent bystander nowhere near either the target or the shooter can become "involved in the action", so to speak.

Note that this isn't exclusive to guns: it's just that guns have more range, lethality, and RoF than any other ranged weapon (at least that I can think of presently).

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickerman

Because then they would become the target of people claiming they were using the anti-gang lobby to unfairly target minorities. Did you forget we're living in America? No one here is responsible for their actions, it's ALL the fault of greedy corporations and their products and middle aged, rich, white men.

It's not my fault I'm fat, it's McDonald's fault for selling me burgers.
It's not the crips/bloods fault they killed an innocent kid in a drive by, it's Smith and Wesson's for making the gun to begin with.

You seem to think there ISN'T an anti-gang movement...

Gangs can't be legislated out of existence, but the weapons that they use can be. Making it illegal to have a gun may increase the number of drive-by knifings, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

**_Ender_** · 09-27-2004, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceCold

So what? Baseball bats kill people. Should they be banned?

Isn't it more logical to simply (and harshly) punish people that use any tool to harm another person illegally?

The thing is though, basebats werent made to kill (or to cause harm) - guns were. From the beginning of the first gun, they were created, promoted, and produced to do one thing and one thing only.. to kill, be it animal, human, or whatever, thats their main function in life. Basebats on the other hand are created, promoted, and produced to hit baseballs, not to kill.

IceCold · 09-27-2004, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Ender_

The thing is though, basebats werent made to kill (or to cause harm) - guns were. From the beginning of the first gun, they were created, promoted, and produced to do one thing and one thing only.. to kill, be it animal, human, or whatever, thats their main function in life. Basebats on the other hand are created, promoted, and produced to hit baseballs, not to kill.

Does it matter to the dead guy whether he was killed with a gun or with a baseball bat? This is completely irrelevent.

Tang and velcro were designed for astronauts, does that mean you and I shouldn't have access to it? This is crazy...

Look, murder is going to happen. There are sick and evil people out there. Guns are tools that make it easier to kill people. Bottom line is this: enacting gun control legislation keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. By definition, criminals break laws. Therefore gun control laws will absolutely have less of an impact on the behavior of criminals than law abiding citizens. In other words, these laws take tools out of the hands of the good guys, while not removing them from the hands of the bad guys. History has proven this time and again. Gun control has never had a positive outcome. I challenge anyone to show me an example of gun control working...

Ignoring the fact that there are purposes for guns other than killing is a foolish position that sidesteps the main argument.

**Wolfie** · 09-27-2004, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

Bottom line is this: enacting gun control legislation keeps guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. By definition, criminals break laws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ender

3 of the 4 would be considered plaything..

Right but you didn't read the entire quote that I used from Dudeman.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudeman

guns are a plaything, they have use in the armed forces and police service, however they do not have any use by civillians other than to kill things..

**Wolfie** · 09-27-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

The reason guns are a hot button and baseball bats aren't is mainly the indiscrimnate nature of ranged weaponry coupled with the utter lethality of the gun itself. Kids don't die while sitting on their porch steps when a gang member beats another to death with a baseball bat, as opposed to a driveby spray of bullets.

THAT'S why there's an anti-gun lobby, and no anti-bat lobby.

I read in the news awhile back (not sure how long ago it was but I am pretty sure it was within the last 6 months) that this one guy walked into a classroom, locked the door, and beat to death at least 4 kids with a baseball bat and seriously injured many others.

**Wolfie** · 09-27-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

Gangs can't be legislated out of existence, but the weapons that they use can be. Making it illegal to have a gun may increase the number of drive-by knifings, but that's a chance I'm willing to take.

Go to Britian, they outlawed guns for law-biding citizens.

**CingularDuality** · 09-27-2004, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pokerface

You seem to think there ISN'T an anti-gang movement...

Can you point me to the website of three organizations that each spend millions of dollars lobbying the US Congress to eliminate gangs from our country? Heck, I'll settle for one...

**Pokerface** · 09-27-2004, 11:03 PM

http://www.grandlodgefop.org/
http://www.defenselink.mil/
http://www.fightcrime.org/ (Currently unresponsive [for me at least], but Google lists it has having existed yesterday)

09-27-2004, 11:03 PM	#90 (permalink)
Pokerface Join Date: May 2003 Location: MD, USA Age: 30 Posts: 5,787	Re: Opinion article from local paper http://www.grandlodgefop.org/ http://www.defenselink.mil/ http://www.fightcrime.org/ (Currently unresponsive [for me at least], but Google lists it has having existed yesterday) __________________ NS Game Officer. TF2 Admin. BF2 Admin / Scripter. PM with issues. Tempus: Pokerface is nailing it right on the head. Everyone who is arguing against him is simply arguing against reality. <anmuzi> it is not permitted to have privacy or anonymity <LazyEye> yeah when I play on TG the server digs though my trash Arm yourself with knowledge: TG NS TF2 BF2

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