Olympic torch in trouble!

**Skylark** · 04-07-2008, 10:14 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080407/.../olympic_torch

PARIS - Security officials extinguished the Olympic torch three times Monday as protests against China's human rights record turned a relay through Paris into a chaotic series of stops and starts.

"The act of defiance from this small group of people is not popular," said Sun Weide, a spokesman for the Beijing Olympic organizing committee. "It will definitely be criticized by people who love peace and adore the Olympic spirit. Their attempt is doomed to failure."

And SO IS YOUR IMPERIALISTIC ATHLETES! WE SHALL DESTROY YOU USING OUR SUPER-PEOPLE! MWA HA HA HA HA HA (ok.. he didn't really say that.... but I'd laugh if he did)

**SmokingTarpan** · 04-07-2008, 11:12 AM

Bravo for someone deciding to say, "Uh, why exactly did we give this honor to China?"

**Mosely** · 04-07-2008, 11:29 AM

And it should be in trouble. While nothing more than a conjecture, I don't think that the idea of the Olympic committee electing China to host the games in order to force them into the limelight is pure fantasy. If they are going to be the superpower they believe they are, some truth needs to be vetted not only throughout the world but within China as well.

I heard a report on NPR this morning that interviewed some Chinese citizens on their reactions to the 'protests' in France and elsewhere. Sadly, they seemed to interpret the protests as fearful of emerging Chinese power. This is how the Chinese government is spinning the stories of the protests, and it's sad to think that their propaganda and iron-fisted control of the media continues to work on large numbers of their own population. Either that or their citizens are too afraid to speak out - reports are that the Chinese have been cracking down harder than usual on dissidents in light of the Olympic games.

**SmokingTarpan** · 04-07-2008, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by AMosely

Either that or their citizens are too afraid to speak out - reports are that the Chinese have been cracking down harder than usual on dissidents in light of the Olympic games.

I was going to say, the Chinese government allows the peons to talk to the media?

**ScratchMonkey** · 04-07-2008, 12:11 PM

[sarcasm]Just gut-shoot the protesters.[/sarcasm] (This has been suggested in another thread as a solution to protesters in Berkeley.)

**Elwenil** · 04-07-2008, 03:19 PM

That isn't funny at all.

On the topic of the protesters, again, I feel that people with their own agenda are barking up the wrong tree. While I agree that Tibet should have more freedom from Chinese control, I don't think that harassing the torch bearers is a smart way to get the message out. In my opinion, they should be protesting at a Chinese embassy and not by disrupting a 3rd party that is basically neutral. I understand what they are thinking though. Attacking the torch bearers has garnered them a lot more media coverage than the other protests, still I think it's going too far and sort of taints their message of freedom. Am I the only one who thinks that sending the message against oppression by harassing the innocent is more than a little hypocritical?

**ScratchMonkey** · 04-07-2008, 03:30 PM

You'll note my lack of smiley. (I didn't feel like looking up the code for rolling eyes.) I was noting the absurdity of the position in the other thread, and how it's so... PRC.

The Olympic Committee has chosen to embrace the PRC with all its warts. The torch bearers by proxy also embrace the PRC. They must accept responsibility for their unfortunate association. One way to do that is to publically distance themselves by condemning the Tibetan oppression.

**Elwenil** · 04-07-2008, 03:35 PM

Since when is the Olympics about politics? They should be above choosing sides.

**Tempus** · 04-07-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Elwenil

That isn't funny at all.

On the topic of the protesters, again, I feel that people with their own agenda are barking up the wrong tree. While I agree that Tibet should have more freedom from Chinese control, I don't think that harassing the torch bearers is a smart way to get the message out. In my opinion, they should be protesting at a Chinese embassy and not by disrupting a 3rd party that is basically neutral. I understand what they are thinking though. Attacking the torch bearers has garnered them a lot more media coverage than the other protests, still I think it's going too far and sort of taints their message of freedom. Am I the only one who thinks that sending the message against oppression by harassing the innocent is more than a little hypocritical?

By your standards then, there would be almost no room for protests.. Maybe people standing on the corner two miles away holding flowers or something..

The purpose of protests are to get people talking about the subject at hand. And here we are talking about it.. Funny how that works sometimes..

**ScratchMonkey** · 04-07-2008, 03:53 PM

It's as much about politics as commercialism. (Observe how the Committee jealously guards the Olympic name and logo. For example, the organizers of the Gay Olympics were sued and forced to change their name to Gay Games. There's a huge amount of money in this racket.)

From http://dictionary.die.net/politics

1: social relations involving authority or power

The Committee has authority and power over the games. And it's a committee. Which implies people using their relationships to get what they want. Sounds like politics to me.

**SmokingTarpan** · 04-07-2008, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Elwenil

Since when is the Olympics about politics? They should be above choosing sides.

I'd suggest doing some research into how locations past and present have been chosen. It's not a couple guys sitting down and saying, "Hey, where's the weather gonna be good this time around?"

Commercialism, politics and prestige have been the ruling force behind many international events, and the Olympics are no exception. That's why holding the Olympics in China is bothersome to myself and some others. Here we have a nation that numerous other nations have condemned on many levels, yet it's decided that China is still worthy of holding the Olympics?

Although, as I presume AMosely alluded to, maybe this was the plan after all for the committee. There's probably quite the chance that China does something majorly offensive when the spot lights are pointed that way.

**Mosely** · 04-07-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Elwenil

On the topic of the protesters, again, I feel that people with their own agenda are barking up the wrong tree. While I agree that Tibet should have more freedom from Chinese control, I don't think that harassing the torch bearers is a smart way to get the message out.

I think it's less about Tibet and more about what the Chinese government does to its own people. Their people have no freedom when it comes to speech, and therefore have no freedom when it comes to journalism. It's not a free country, and the government abuses its power to cover up the fact that the people aren't happy about it. The government is powerful enough that it's hard to say how many citizens even know what true freedom is. Ever heard of the 'great firewall of china' - it's a great example of how rigid the controls are there. China is worse than Iran or Saudi Arabia when it comes to censorship of speech. Beyond the basic unfairness of this kind of censorship and control, it's a serious security risk to other countries. If the government decided that America was an enemy, they would not have a hard time convincing the population of this.

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

Although, as I presume AMosely alluded to, maybe this was the plan after all for the committee. There's probably quite the chance that China does something majorly offensive when the spot lights are pointed that way.

I wonder if this is the case but have no proof of it. The International Olympic Committee is somewhat of a shady organization, and there has been plenty of criticism of the 'neutrality' of the host selection process - just ask Mitt Romney. The election of Beijing to host the 2008 games was one of their most controversial selections because China is pretty clearly in violation of many of the host city 'criteria' because of its human rights record.

To me, the most disturbing part of all this is how low human rights ranks on the international scale of importance. It's 2008 - we've been living in the 'information age' for at least ten years. When are people going to start waking up? Saddam Hussein was an angel compared to what goes on behind closed doors in some of the biggest, most powerful countries on the planet.

I'm with the protesters. International awareness and acceptance of human rights is essential to the security that only true peace can provide.

**War.mongeR1** · 04-07-2008, 04:39 PM

Anyone remember that Adolf Hitler hosted the Olympics back in 1936?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936_Summer_Olympics (Great read relevant to current events)

**Elwenil** · 04-07-2008, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tempus

By your standards then, there would be almost no room for protests.. Maybe people standing on the corner two miles away holding flowers or something..

The purpose of protests are to get people talking about the subject at hand. And here we are talking about it.. Funny how that works sometimes..

Yes, but I am not talking about supporting the protesters and I certainly would not join them. I find it funny that so many people feel it's ok to manipulate the situation by attacking those who gain them the most media attention. Nevermind that in attacking the torch bearers they are doing the exact same thing they are protesting about.

**Sarcoma** · 04-07-2008, 06:46 PM

I cant wait till it comes to San Francisco. Its gonna be a circus watching all the protest groups trying to make themselves heard. I hope it passes my building...cross your fingers for me.

Sarcoma