Obama or Clinton? - Page 13

**CingularDuality** · 05-12-2008, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1er

The fact that I, as a Brit, know more about the working and policies of your politics and politicians, is scary.

Are you referring to a specific person, or just making ridiculous statements for the fun of it?

Sara · 05-12-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwenil

At least with McCain we know what to expect and what he says is logical to me. I have no idea what Obama is doing and I don't think he does either. McCain has a lot more experience than Obama and I really think that is Obama's problem. He "thinks" all his change will work, but he just doesn't have the experience to tell him it won't or even how to go about doing it.

As far as Iraq, I think we need to push them a little more. We will still be in Iraq 30 years from now if the United States is still around. With any luck, McCain will push the Iraqi government to be a bit more proactive in their own interests. They have been making a lot more progress lately, but have a long way to go. I personally feel that the Iraqi people have been controlled for so long that they are unsure of how to handle their new freedom and the foreign fighters and insurgents just compound the problem. I think if it were handled right, and the Iraqi government takes s tight grip on their country that we could see the complete end of the fighting within 3 years, 5 at the most. I'm confident that McCain can do that and will. Obama's only plan is to tuck tail and run, let Iraq collapse in on itself and hand all the oil money to the worst possible people in the region.

I think your more into Obama losing then McCain or Hillary winning. Your saying that if Obama is elected president that were all going to die in a huge explosion of terrorists because you think he's working with terrorists or something

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

War is usually very good for a country's economy.

True True

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1er

The fact that I, as a Brit, know more about the working and policies of your politics and politicians, is scary.

The sheer ignorance and assumptive comments exhibited here make me worried.
Are your people going to elect another bureaucratic, oil-swilling, war-mongerer? Or are your people going to elect someone with at least an ounce of passion for humanity?

Good luck, by the way.

Second paragraph just hurt my mind....and from what im reading I think this British guy knows more then half the American's in this forum..

Lets put this in your mind.

McCain
-----------
Pros - Experience, "Wants to keep No Child Left Behind"
Cons - Wants to send more troops to Iraq, Is just another Bush, Has Military experience, and said to have a temper.

Hillary
---------
Pros - She has Bill, Wants to take troops out of Iraq
Cons - Bill, Wants to get rid of no child left behind, She has that bitchy attitude and honestly I don't think a women is ready to run a country.

Obama
---------
Pros - Smart, Powerful, Wants to keep "No Child Left Behind," Wants to take troops out of Iraq.
Cons - Spends more time fighting with Hillary then worrying about his campaign, Sometimes doesn't know what he's doing.

**CingularDuality** · 05-12-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara

McCain
-----------
Pros - Experience, "Wants to keep No Child Left Behind"
Cons - Wants to send more troops to Iraq, Is just another Bush, Has Military experience, and said to have a temper.

You put military experience in the wrong category...

And "No child" is pretty hated by real teachers (as opposed to teaching administrators). I'm not too spun up on the program, or its faults, but teachers that I know and trust say it's horrible, so... What do you like about it?

Quote:

Hillary
---------
Pros - She has Bill, Wants to take troops out of Iraq
Cons - Bill, Wants to get rid of no child left behind, She has that bitchy attitude and honestly I don't think a women is ready to run a country.

Don't think a woman is ready to run a country? Do you know how many countries have already had women running them? Did you mean to say that you don't think THIS is the woman that the country is ready to have as the first woman President?

Quote:

Obama
---------
Pros - Smart, Powerful, Wants to keep "No Child Left Behind," Wants to take troops out of Iraq.
Cons - Spends more time fighting with Hillary then worrying about his campaign, Sometimes doesn't know what he's doing.

I think the only thing he's got going in the Con category are his previous associations. Wright made some ripples, but when his friendship with William Ayers finally gets picked up by the media, the waves made by 527s are going to be painful.

Sara · 05-12-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You put military experience in the wrong category...

And "No child" is pretty hated by real teachers (as opposed to teaching administrators). I'm not too spun up on the program, or its faults, but teachers that I know and trust say it's horrible, so... What do you like about it?

Don't think a woman is ready to run a country? Do you know how many countries have already had women running them? Did you mean to say that you don't think THIS is the woman that the country is ready to have as the first woman President?

I think the only thing he's got going in the Con category are his previous associations. Wright made some ripples, but when his friendship with William Ayers finally gets picked up by the media, the waves made by 527s are going to be painful.

"No Child" - I am a teacher and as a teacher I want my student's to do the best they can. If that means taking 40 minutes of my morning and an hour after school so be it.

Military experience - Isn't always a good thing. People with the slightest military experience turn out to be crazy. If McCain is one of those people then were screwed.

I gotta go to work ill be on later

**leejo** · 05-12-2008, 08:39 AM

Classic example of supporting the (crazy) troops, just not the war.

Elwenil · 05-12-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You put military experience in the wrong category...

Agreed, I think military experience is very important when dealing with world issues. Like it or not, world conflict frequently come down to military force and I would much rather have someone in charge who knows exactly what we are capable of and how to do it. I definitely don't want another strategic disaster waiting to happen as we had with Bill Clinton. That idiot left the "football" behind numerous times and botched up every military action with his indecision and political BS while he was in charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

And "No child" is pretty hated by real teachers (as opposed to teaching administrators). I'm not too spun up on the program, or its faults, but teachers that I know and trust say it's horrible, so... What do you like about it?

I'm of mixed mind about this topic. I think that our education system needs some serious updating and I do think that too many students are not being held to a high enough standard. If the grammar I see here on the Internet and on TV is any indication, we are in serious trouble. My personal small town school experience is that the majority of the teachers don't care and I saw a lot of evidence of kids being passed simply because the teacher didn't want to deal with the student again next year. Perhaps better pay for our teachers would give them more pride in their job?

I don't know, and I'm not sure "No Child" is the answer, but something needs to be done and I really don't think that the "No Child" standards are that difficult to attain. Again, I think it lies with the teachers and I think they and the schools should be held accountable for the failures of their students. I don't think withholding funding is the answer, since that seems to make the problem worse.

Elwenil · 05-12-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara

"No Child" - I am a teacher and as a teacher I want my student's to do the best they can. If that means taking 40 minutes of my morning and an hour after school so be it.

That is wonderful and you deserve to be commended. I only wish more teachers felt the same way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sara

Military experience - Isn't always a good thing. People with the slightest military experience turn out to be crazy. If McCain is one of those people then were screwed.

Honestly, I find this statement to be very offensive as I'm sure a lot of our enlisted members do also. You should show more respect for the people who sacrifice everything to ensure that you are able to make such ridiculous statements.

**1er** · 05-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Are you referring to a specific person, or just making ridiculous statements for the fun of it?

I'm talking about myself. Most British people are morons, too.

Elwenil · 05-12-2008, 10:32 AM

So you are worried about the sheer ignorance and assumptions in your own comments? Somehow I doubt that is the case, just as I doubt you, a 19 year old from another country, know more about US politics than all of us here. I find it hard to believe considering that more than likely your only basis of knowledge is liberally influenced media. I don't think making offensive comments is really a smart move here, especially considering that you have no vote in our elections.

**leejo** · 05-12-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

why vote for Obama, the only reason a black guy is gona vote for obama, is for this one reason HES BLACK, its all about your race in this game now, all the black people/ black loving people are gona vote obama, all the white supremisists are gona vote either clinton or the other republic dude, i forgot his name......

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

LOL! Ignorance FTW!

Robert Johnson, the founder of BET with pretty rocking black credentials, voiced his doubts that John Smith, white first term senator from Illinois, would carry 98% of the black vote in many states. I, too, doubt that a honkey from Chicago would inspire that sort of enthusiastic support.

I also doubt very strongly that Obama will do well with the white supremecists. So what exactly is your problem with this post?

Hambergler · 05-12-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey

[citation needed]

http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/Pa...-Terrorism.asp

AMosely · 05-12-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

why vote for Obama, the only reason a black guy is gona vote for obama, is for this one reason HES BLACK, its all about your race in this game now, all the black people/ black loving people are gona vote obama, all the white supremisists are gona vote either clinton or the other republic dude, i forgot his name......

Quote:

Originally Posted by leejo

So what exactly is your problem with this post?

I have a couple of problems with j.barker's post. First of all, the amount of political knowledge displayed here is par, if not better for the course here in America - so take a good look at it before you (collectively) scoff at it. Without even getting into a discussion about how much of the black vote Obama would take (2008 primary statistics seem to be indicating it would be quite a bit), the black vote in the 2004 election only made up less than 9% of the vote according to census data. Fortunately or unfortunately, the census doesn't track white supremacists, but I would hope they represent a negligible percentage of the voting population. It's also worth pointing out that the highest numbers of black voters draw from urban centers, which happen to be democratic strongholds. This starts to get into why Obama is statistically stronger candidate for the democratic party - Hillary has been winning in areas (counties) that often vote republican, while Obama has been receiving votes from traditional democratic strongholds. If the democratic party nominates him, this will be a major reason why.

So, how about the here and now - should Hillary take the high road or keep on trucking? The media has made up its mind citing the super delegates votes, and that they outnumber and outweigh anything gained or lost in West Virginia or Kentucky. What does our expert panel say?

Birdman1011395 · 05-12-2008, 03:00 PM

I think they say that to diminish the victories Hillary will (most likely) be getting.

I noticed this occurrence while I was watching the election converge on Fox News. When less than 1% of the vote was in, they called North Carolina for Obama at 66% to Hillary's 34%. After 50% of the vote was in, "it was still too close to call" in Indiana with Hillary ahead by 12+ points. They didn't end up calling it until the very last moment.

Now I understand NC was heavily predicted to go for Obama and the media liked to say how close it was in Indiana. But stilll less than 1% of the vote was enough? 1% is about 15,000 votes in the primary.

ScratchMonkey · 05-12-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

War is usually very good for a country's economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable..._broken_window

(See section 3.1.)

Fenian420 · 05-12-2008, 03:46 PM

War Economy: Yea thats what I was about to get at.. Sure War brought us out of the depression but War also f**ked up Germany twice (first uncalled for, second needed).

No Child Left Behind: As a student right now in high school in Seattle (which is said to be one of the most intellectual cities, also democrat with hardly any republicans though) most of the teachers, actually every single one that I've met say that they absolutely hate the No child left behind act. They have to spend so much time to make sure that their kids will pass a standardized test every year that they can't teach what they personally think is important for the people learning. And while this is a good way to weed out the actual bad teachers and students that just dont give a **** about school it does damage the curriculum and most students dread the time that they have to take preparing to take the test then actually taking the test.

Hilary vs. Obama: To put it out there I think Obama's going to win for the Democrats, he's always had the lead and is now getting even more support by the Delegates. Another thing is though women are fit to run certain countries personally I don't think that any women is ready to run this country. The only thing having Hilary in there is going to do is put a slightly different version of Bill in there. Although that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing it seems just by these forums that a lot of Americans don't want that (although I think we did prosper from having Bill in, though I've only really seen when Bill is in and when Bush is in my entire life).. Obama; he's a lot less experienced ovbiously, he's the opposite of Bush, Bush had some experience when he was elected, he got reelected and got worse.. Obama I think if he was relected for a second term would only get better and more stable. While he doesn't truely know how to get things going I do think he knows what the people want and though like taking a risk trusting any politician I think Obama will hold his word with the American people best he can..

Who's the other guy? Not the reverend but someone else someone mentioned on here thats related to Obama in a bad way (not like Cheney is).

05-12-2008, 08:39 AM	#185 (permalink)
leejo Join Date: Sep 2003 Age: 39 Posts: 7,839	Re: Obama or Clinton? Classic example of supporting the (crazy) troops, just not the war.

05-12-2008, 10:32 AM	#189 (permalink)
Elwenil Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Covington, VA USA Age: 34 Posts: 1,227	Re: Obama or Clinton? So you are worried about the sheer ignorance and assumptions in your own comments? Somehow I doubt that is the case, just as I doubt you, a 19 year old from another country, know more about US politics than all of us here. I find it hard to believe considering that more than likely your only basis of knowledge is liberally influenced media. I don't think making offensive comments is really a smart move here, especially considering that you have no vote in our elections. __________________ \|TG\|Elwenil StullUnlimited.com Offroad Parts and Fabrication

05-12-2008, 03:00 PM	#193 (permalink)
Birdman1011395 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond Age: 21 Posts: 193	Re: Obama or Clinton? I think they say that to diminish the victories Hillary will (most likely) be getting. I noticed this occurrence while I was watching the election converge on Fox News. When less than 1% of the vote was in, they called North Carolina for Obama at 66% to Hillary's 34%. After 50% of the vote was in, "it was still too close to call" in Indiana with Hillary ahead by 12+ points. They didn't end up calling it until the very last moment. Now I understand NC was heavily predicted to go for Obama and the media liked to say how close it was in Indiana. But stilll less than 1% of the vote was enough? 1% is about 15,000 votes in the primary. __________________ BF 2142:\|TG\| Birdman10113 CoD4: \|TG\|Birdman Let's put the badges here... Last edited by Birdman1011395; 05-12-2008 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Keep confusing myself

05-12-2008, 03:46 PM	#195 (permalink)
Fenian420 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,098	Re: Obama or Clinton? War Economy: Yea thats what I was about to get at.. Sure War brought us out of the depression but War also fked up Germany twice (first uncalled for, second needed). No Child Left Behind: As a student right now in high school in Seattle (which is said to be one of the most intellectual cities, also democrat with hardly any republicans though) most of the teachers, actually every single one that I've met say that they absolutely hate the No child left behind act. They have to spend so much time to make sure that their kids will pass a standardized test every year that they can't teach what they personally think is important for the people learning. And while this is a good way to weed out the actual bad teachers and students that just dont give a ** about school it does damage the curriculum and most students dread the time that they have to take preparing to take the test then actually taking the test. Hilary vs. Obama: To put it out there I think Obama's going to win for the Democrats, he's always had the lead and is now getting even more support by the Delegates. Another thing is though women are fit to run certain countries personally I don't think that any women is ready to run this country. The only thing having Hilary in there is going to do is put a slightly different version of Bill in there. Although that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing it seems just by these forums that a lot of Americans don't want that (although I think we did prosper from having Bill in, though I've only really seen when Bill is in and when Bush is in my entire life).. Obama; he's a lot less experienced ovbiously, he's the opposite of Bush, Bush had some experience when he was elected, he got reelected and got worse.. Obama I think if he was relected for a second term would only get better and more stable. While he doesn't truely know how to get things going I do think he knows what the people want and though like taking a risk trusting any politician I think Obama will hold his word with the American people best he can.. Who's the other guy? Not the reverend but someone else someone mentioned on here thats related to Obama in a bad way (not like Cheney is).

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