MagnaCentipede

Yeah, all those Iraqi people building new businesses and enjoying not having their families killed because someone said something negative about Saddam; we've made their situation worse.

Let the asylum-seekers suffer. They are the meek who let Saddam kill millions in their lands in the first place. Those who will not fight for freedom do not deserve it.

That is a key misjudgment in the Bush battle plan. Bush assumed that the Iraqi people were like textbook Americans and most/all were willing to fight for freedom. He missed the big hint that if they weren't fighting Saddam for freedom, they wouldn't stop Al Qaida or anyone else for that matter from dominating them anew. That's why the battle has been so protracted -- the proportion of Iraqis who wish to earn freedom and security is small compared to those who will submit to being shepherded. American et alli forces are standing in for the expected-but-absent Iraqi patriots.

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Pittbullbloodr

THEY BOTH WANT GOVERNMENT TO RUN YOUR LIFE!
Think about it, and think what makes this country great.
Right now if you work hard (no matter what race /religion/or back ground/rich or poor.)
You can become what ever you want.
IF you want, sit on you butt, do nothing and thats what you get.
Get off your butt, work hard,go to school, set a goal.
IT WON'T BE EASY but thats what it takes.
40 hour work week won't get you there at first.
THAT COMES LATTER IF AT ALL.
THE PROBLEM with our country now is people want our Government to do it for us.
Example :health care ,housing relieve, food stamps.
Don't get me wrong ,help the ones that need help,not the ones who sit on there butts and put there hands out.
I have my own family that needs insurance,food,shelter,collage .
Don't vote for who gives you the most in Government because Government doesn’t make money.It has to take it from you and me before it gives it out.
TAXES TAXES TAXES

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RandomGuy

I have never seen a thread in the sandbox half as bad as this one when it comes to wild accusations, unthinking fear, ridiculous hyperbole and comical misrepresentations. Except for a few posts this thread is like a bad comedy sketch about a political debate.

tau_neutrino

People falling for stereotypes and 1 min soundbites ftl. IMO democracy isn't very effective when the voters are uneducated and uninformed, and mainstream media isn't really helping.

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TacticalGamer TX LAN/BBQ Veteran:

Elwenil

well I consider myself pretty well informed. I make a pretty good effort to learn about all the candidates and not just the ones who speak on topics I care about. Having seen Obama speak, I do think he is very charismatic and I can see why someone would vote for him, but I do not agree with him on a lot of points and I do not think he is going to be a good thing as our nation's leader. A voice like his is very good as a Senator, but not as our President, in my opinion. But what do I know, I'm just a working guy who is bitter and clinging to my religion and my guns. I simply don't get how people can overlook things like that and it simply reinforces my opinion that he has racist or at least class prejudices.

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|TG|Elwenil

Lusitano Louco

That is a seriously wrong assertion. This is real life, not some idealized cartoon version of it. If the American people were at some point willing to fight for their freedom that time has now passed. All kinds of ilegalities both within and abroad have been committed by the current administration and I didn't hear of any revolution to put an end to that.

You are a freedom fighter? Start in your own land, where your rights are being wiped and trampled without anyone lifting a finger.
Being aware of the problem means you are getting started on the path to recovery.

Elwenil

I think we already established that you are not from the US, correct? Your assessment of the situation seems a bit skewed in my opinion and borders on offensive. The various "illegal acts" that people seem so quick to jump to accuse the Bush Administration of rarely have solid facts to back them up and are generally the expression of opinion, rather than fact. I don't think anyone is moving to try anyone in any sort of international court are they? Why do you think that is?

What you quoted was my sarcastic comment paraphrasing a demeaning comment by Obama recently. I, as a working class individual, am not part of any problem and your comment merely enforces my idea that you base a lot of your thoughts on useless stereotypes. But lets keep the discussion about the Obama/Clinton debate, shall we?

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Trooper

Just need to point out that you can not get a full appreciation for any presidents decisions while they are in office. The previous 8 years where run by someone more interested in screwing the secretary then actually doing anything domestic for this country. Granted he did have decent over seas policy but you cant call being a yes man good policy. Why do you think Clinton had it so easy? The years before him where paved by the republicans. If you really want to see how Bushes policy's will effect us, wait for this election.

again Bush is dealing with issues he was handed by the previous administration. Granted invading a Islamic country and trying to cram a failing governmental system down their throats was not smart, but they had "WMD".

Thats my only issue really with both of the democrats. They are both for huge goverment and less private control. Even their gun issues are governmental.

The uneducated and informed rule this country, and the media just baits them along from topic to topic. Why do you think Ron Paul got less media time then the rest? He is for media control.

Actually his misjudgment came from trying to enforce democracy in such a religiously based society. No where in the Islamic history does democracy fit. Not trying to put them down, because alot has come from them. Islam is run by Clans and Clerics, not a central government where "everyone" has a voice.



Im voting for Ron Paul. Only one that makes sense and actually has intelligent plans for this country.

Steve_Snake_Driver

Ahhh, from the mouths of babes.....

Bin Laden's boys are. I'd tell you to ask a couple prominent jihadi's but they are unable to respond since they currently in the middle of very long dirt naps. That is to say nothing of the very very poor opinion that Al Queda has earned through their murderous campaign against civilians and fellow muslims. A sea change in opinion that is no small thing. Just cause the iman down the street from you in Londonstan holds up a sign saying 'We' are loosing doesn't make it so.

You need to read the entire recent report on Iraq/Saddam/terrorist connections and not just the hoary bits Reuters, the NYT, and AP selected for your indoctrination.

Anbar awakening, strangest damn rebellion against Coalition forces I've ever seen. Guess it doesn't fit you're world view so toss those factoids out the window.

Yeah, being a terrorist in Iraq is a career path that is the envy of Western men and women alike. Cheered and feted by fellow muslims (using cell phones to tell Coalition forces where to deliver party favors).

You need to expand your reading lists. The influx of Iraqi's is INTO Iraq, and not the other way around...oh, unless you've been murdering your fellow countrymen...those guys are leaving...maybe they'll move into your neighborhood!

Hambergler

Can you link to this report?

Citation Please.

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Pittbullbloodr

A good debate is always a start.
You have to know what the other person is thinking before you can understand, then express how or why you think the way you do.
In the above conversation the only thing I would like to add at this time is that WE are a Republic not a democracy.
We base things off of laws, and that all of us are created equal.
A Democracy is a majority rules, what the majority wants it gets, right or wrong.
Please we need to remember that the U.S.A. is a Republic not a Democracy.

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Steve_Snake_Driver

For first:
Add three w's before first two...

2.nysun.com/article/72906?page_no=1

.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/889pvpxc.asp?pg=1

abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/Saddam%20and%20Terrorism%20Redaction%20EXSUM%20Ext ract.pdf

Trooper

Exactly but until they change that in the schools we will forever have generations of kids who are told different.

SharinganTH1422

No...they...didn't.

Didn't anyone tell you?

P.S. I'm exiting this "debate". I'm really holding myself back here, and I wasn't planning on saying anything at all anymore, but the fact that Iraq didn't have any WMDs is just a black and white, no shades or grey, wrong statement. This sort of stuff is dangerous territory to talk about, in private circles, let alone a public forum. I'll still observe with interest, but I can see this turning into a very large and ugly argument...

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Anger is a gift - Malcolm X

...If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same...

Elwenil

This has nothing to do with WMDs or not, it's about the opinions on Clinton or Obama. Let's keep it there. We've already beaten the other topic and similar ones to death and I'm pretty sure we all know where we stand on them.

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