this is what i beleive in. - Page 4

Drizzid · 05-13-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

what do you meen by that? are you calling me illiterate? or dumb?

I am not "calling" you anything but if you have such a strong belief in what you state then it takes more than just complaining about it to change it. It takes getting an education to facilitate change. It's very easy to sit there and think you know all the answers but in fact you know very little other than what you watch on TV or the lyrics of some metal/punk pathetic band. If you want to change something then do more than just bitch and complain about it, do something about it.

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-13-2008, 10:36 PM

Ok, I have to drop the hammer. This just pissed me off.

Barker, I dont want to call you an idiot, so I wont. But the thought is on the table.

Let me address your post before I go into other things:

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

i beleive in, all these bastard politicians ruined are country, ya we may have a strong military, but are econmy is crap, we got so many illegals, think about the country first, then think about war..

First off, it's not the politicians that ruin the country. It's us. Now, a lot of people wont agree, saying that the politicians dont listen to the people. Well, unfortunately its because we refuse to take action while we're comfy in our recliners in front of the TV watching American Idol. Our government is designed so that if we disagree with the decisions being made, we can remove the people making them. We just dont do it cause we're a bunch of lazy schmucks.

Our economy isnt crap. Yeah, we're paying more for gas, and in turn, paying more for everything else that requires gas to be transported. This creates a small recession. But you know what, we still have one of the most powerful and influential economic systems in the world. It could be a lot worse. We could be in Myanmar right now.

We'll always have illegals. This country was founded by illegal immigrants. But you know what, the statue of liberty reads "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" We have rules to live here, but everyone wants in, and creativity will always find a way across the border.

As far as the war, its an ongoing thing. We cant simply put it on hold. Relevance dictates attention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

were dying from the inside out because all these black people that kill each other off, sit on there but and do nothing and suck the economy dry because there to lazy to get off there but and work, but does anyone do nothing about it? no they dont, they just take the peoples b.s because were to scared we will offend them,

Not only is that extremely bigoted, but it's absolute crap. Even at 16, you should be ashamed of yourself for saying it. There is no one particular group thats responsible for being a drain on the economy. Theres a crapload of caucasians, asians, and hispanics on welfare/government assistance programs too. Your limited world viewpoint needs some broadening son. Very badly.

In addition to that, what would you have us do? Starve people? Refuse aid to the sick and the hungry and let our streets clutter with people who have turned from simple folks who mwere down on their luck to being criminals just so they could survive? Wrong-o. People do plenty to solve the problems. But the people who are the source of the problems need to start helping too. Less about kicking ass, more about lighting a fire under them to stir some action.

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

screw being scared and and do something, kick the money suckers out, and let someone hoo is willing to work in, this may be offensive to people, but i could care less, freedom of speech(if we still have it) allowes me to say all this stuff...
oh and i live in the USA

You cant just deport people for being poor. You cant deport people because you dont like them. It doesnt work that way. Regardless of what you might think, these people still have rights.

So, good for you, you live in the U.S.A. and you have the right to freedom of speech. Heres a tip kid: learn to use it properly.

Go to school, learn to spell, learn a little grammar, study world cultures, study economics, foreign relations and political science. Then come back here when you are capable of making a well reasoned and rational argument. Your ramblings border on being incoherent, your spelling is something that would shame a fourth grader, you have no sentence structure, your arguments are racist and bigoted, in addition to being completely obtuse. It's INSULTING that you claim to be a proud member of the United States, arguing your points through your right to free speech, demonizing people, and yet you cant bring yourself to be educated when doing so. You claim to be able to think, but you're obviously not doing so.

Gentlemen, this isnt a failure of the educational system. The educational system functions marvelously. The missing component is the drive to learn. The students have to possess that. It cant be given, it cant be taught. But in our complacency and consumerism, we've created a generation of couch potatoes, more interested in the latest release on xbox or the latest episode of their reality tv than they are about their own future. A recent polling of public school students in orlando found that 74% of high school sophomores could not name a single play by William Shakespeare, even though the county curriculum mandates that two of his plays be read and worked on by students at the sophomore level.
This is what we wind up with.
This is where our complacency has led us.

I apologize for being harsh, but you fueled it. If you're going to step in the arena with the adults, you had better be prepared to act like one.

**Rincewind** · 05-13-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferris Bueller

I apologize for being harsh, but you fueled it. If you're going to step in the arena with the adults, you had better be prepared to act like one.

*slow clap*

j.barker · 05-13-2008, 11:01 PM

i am not racist, i hate hitler, and im not a white supremicist, i got some black friends, almost all mexican friends, and a couple white friends... i hate some not all, i just hate the little gang banger wannabe's and yes i am 16, but i wont tell no one were i live because i learned to not tell people that, otherwise they will show up at my house

ScratchMonkey · 05-13-2008, 11:03 PM

The spelling certainly could use some improvement. Attempting to convince someone of your position while using poor spelling makes you look less than compelling.

Whether your are dumb is not the point. If you look dumb, people will dismiss what you have to say. (Just look at Bush.)

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-13-2008, 11:07 PM

It's not a matter of you being racist barker. Your statements are racist. I'm no buddhist, but I believe they got it right in the ideal that you should not hate. Period. Theres no reason for hate. All you do is create strife and malcontent. Try acceptance, try progressive change, try charity. Those things will bring you a lot of fulfillment in a world where happiness is already in short supply.

Help those you can, leave the rest to their own self-destructive devices. But grow up about it. Learn.

j.barker · 05-13-2008, 11:08 PM

what i dont like is, when someone calls you "nazie" or a "white supremicst" when ur not is just plain out wrong

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-13-2008, 11:15 PM

Well, what most people dont like is when someone makes a statement that indicates that they think along those lines. Racism is "just plain out wrong", as you so succinctly put it. Yet you made what was obviously very bigoted and racist commentary.

As they said in The Rock, "assumption is the mother of all f*** ups". You assumed that certain people were responsible for the state of affairs in this country and you made a horribly wrong statement to that effect. Other people assumed you might be a white supremacist and made incorrect statements to that effect. Both wrong. But your argument was the erroneous first stone. You catalyzed your own pigeonholing.

j.barker · 05-13-2008, 11:17 PM

oh and to clear things up, i only hate the people that live in are country, and sit on there but and do nothing, and yet collect a wellfare check, we could use the money we give out to help us in wars or make better schools, or more...

j.barker · 05-13-2008, 11:18 PM

i think i messed that last post up

**brain21** · 05-13-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j.barker

i think i messed that last post up

The usefulness of the Edit button comes to light.

Anyways. I only hope that you've had you views misinterpreted BADLY, or misstated them.

To those of you who rag on him for his spelling, yes, it's crap, but come on. Argue his viewpoints, not his spelling and/or grammar.
Barker, it is a very, very bad idea to believe anything from a single source. Find other sources which can give you more info on a subject. Don't base opinions upon a single set of facts/statements.
And please, PLEASE read a book or two. It does wonders for spelling. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSkudDestroyer

It's interesting that you sound just like someone...someone we all know. Oh right.. No not Stalin... Oh yes, it was HITLER!

Ever heard of Godwin's law, Skud?

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-13-2008, 11:47 PM

Godwin's Law doesnt apply here. It wasnt a random reference to Nazism or Hitler. It was intentional, provoked by a statement made in direct evidence to skud's rationale. Godwin's Law applies to people throwing out the reference on a baseless point due to the length of a discussion surpassing the imaginary limit at which a discussion can retain it's "meat and potatoes" and sinking into nothing more than a flame war. Nice try though brain, you almost had it!

**brain21** · 05-13-2008, 11:50 PM

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." - Mike Godwin

Replace Usenet with internet conversation and bingo-bango. Doesn't have to be random. Although, I do feel that Skud's use of it was appropriate, I'm just trying to alleviate some tensions here, and to give Barker a full chance to explain what he said.

**Ferris Bueller** · 05-13-2008, 11:55 PM

I know, just giving you a bag of hammers to play with.

However, to combat your statement:

Quote:

There are many corollaries to Godwin's law, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself) than others invented later. For example, there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress. This principle is itself frequently referred to as Godwin's Law. It is considered poor form to raise such a comparison arbitrarily with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such ulterior-motive invocation of Godwin's law will be unsuccessful (this is sometimes referred to as "Quirk's Exception").

Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions. It does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda, or other mainstays of the Nazi regime. Whether it applies to humorous use or references to oneself is open to interpretation, because although mentioning and trivializing Nazism in an online discussion, this would not be a fallacious attack against a debate opponent.

However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's Law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons.

**CingularDuality** · 05-14-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brain21

To those of you who rag on him for his spelling, yes, it's crap, but come on. Argue his viewpoints, not his spelling and/or grammar.

Oh, no... That's not how it works. You see, in order to have a conversation, you must be able to communicate. Communicating with text, as we are doing, requires that one shares a common language (which includes grammar and spelling) with another. Toss spelling and grammar out the window and you simply aren't going to be able to communicate.
Besides... I don't think anyone here has really ragged on him. Yet.

05-13-2008, 11:01 PM	#49 (permalink)
j.barker Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 156	Re: this is what i beleive in. i am not racist, i hate hitler, and im not a white supremicist, i got some black friends, almost all mexican friends, and a couple white friends... i hate some not all, i just hate the little gang banger wannabe's and yes i am 16, but i wont tell no one were i live because i learned to not tell people that, otherwise they will show up at my house __________________ the avatar is not me, its my favorite singer.

05-13-2008, 11:03 PM	#50 (permalink)
ScratchMonkey Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Pablo, California Posts: 4,565	Re: this is what i beleive in. The spelling certainly could use some improvement. Attempting to convince someone of your position while using poor spelling makes you look less than compelling. Whether your are dumb is not the point. If you look dumb, people will dismiss what you have to say. (Just look at Bush.) __________________

05-13-2008, 11:07 PM	#51 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: this is what i beleive in. It's not a matter of you being racist barker. Your statements are racist. I'm no buddhist, but I believe they got it right in the ideal that you should not hate. Period. Theres no reason for hate. All you do is create strife and malcontent. Try acceptance, try progressive change, try charity. Those things will bring you a lot of fulfillment in a world where happiness is already in short supply. Help those you can, leave the rest to their own self-destructive devices. But grow up about it. Learn. __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

05-13-2008, 11:08 PM	#52 (permalink)
j.barker Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 156	Re: this is what i beleive in. what i dont like is, when someone calls you "nazie" or a "white supremicst" when ur not is just plain out wrong __________________ the avatar is not me, its my favorite singer.

05-13-2008, 11:17 PM	#54 (permalink)
j.barker Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 156	Re: this is what i beleive in. oh and to clear things up, i only hate the people that live in are country, and sit on there but and do nothing, and yet collect a wellfare check, we could use the money we give out to help us in wars or make better schools, or more... __________________ the avatar is not me, its my favorite singer.

05-13-2008, 11:15 PM	#53 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Well, what most people dont like is when someone makes a statement that indicates that they think along those lines. Racism is "just plain out wrong", as you so succinctly put it. Yet you made what was obviously very bigoted and racist commentary. As they said in The Rock, "assumption is the mother of all f*** ups". You assumed that certain people were responsible for the state of affairs in this country and you made a horribly wrong statement to that effect. Other people assumed you might be a white supremacist and made incorrect statements to that effect. Both wrong. But your argument was the erroneous first stone. You catalyzed your own pigeonholing.

05-13-2008, 11:18 PM	#55 (permalink)
j.barker Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 156	Re: this is what i beleive in. i think i messed that last post up __________________ the avatar is not me, its my favorite singer.

05-13-2008, 11:47 PM	#57 (permalink)
Ferris Bueller Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Age: 26 Posts: 5,160	Re: this is what i beleive in. Godwin's Law doesnt apply here. It wasnt a random reference to Nazism or Hitler. It was intentional, provoked by a statement made in direct evidence to skud's rationale. Godwin's Law applies to people throwing out the reference on a baseless point due to the length of a discussion surpassing the imaginary limit at which a discussion can retain it's "meat and potatoes" and sinking into nothing more than a flame war. Nice try though brain, you almost had it! __________________ \|TG-6th\|Ferris Bueller Important TG Reading \| Support TG - Become a Supporting Member \| TacticalWiki - Your TG Guide Kicked/Banned? READ THIS FIRST! \| Complete list of TG Admins \| Think Someone Did A Good Job? Nominate Them For a Ribbon! Report Problem Players/Appeal Your Ban \| Learn TG - The TG Mentoring Program __________________ "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." -Lazarus Long

05-13-2008, 11:50 PM	#58 (permalink)
brain21 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Vancouver, BC Age: 15 Posts: 949	Re: this is what i beleive in. "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." - Mike Godwin Replace Usenet with internet conversation and bingo-bango. Doesn't have to be random. Although, I do feel that Skud's use of it was appropriate, I'm just trying to alleviate some tensions here, and to give Barker a full chance to explain what he said. __________________ \|TG-Irr\| Brain21

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