Man jailed because daughter failed GED - Page 3

Kerostasis · 05-15-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You're still not looking at it right. The punishment is 6 months in jail for truancy. After that sentence has been decided, the judge then says, "But if you can convince your adult daughter to get her GED, I'll let you go with probation." If the adult daughter doesn't get her GED, the dad's not being punished because she didn't get her GED. He's being punished for the truancy crime that he was already found guilty of!

While this view would make the judge appear less irrational, its not a view that is particularly well supported by the facts of the case. The father here does not seem to have been found guilty of anything at all, and he is now being held responsible for his daughter's performance during the year after she turned 18. I've run out of sympathy for this judge.

SmokingTarpan · 05-15-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Ah, I did not realize this. Where are you getting this info? From a blog?

It's apparently a statement from the father's sister that she sent to a blog.

Quote:

Brittany had sporadic court dates about her truancy through all this. It was June 2007 when the judge told Brian he would be go to jail for contributing to the delinquency of a minor if Brittany did not return to school in the Fall. Brittany turned 18 yrs old August 2007 and was enrolled in school, but did not attend because she was "18".

She returned to juvenile court, although she was now 18, on August 29th. The court then ordered her father to take Brittany out of school, and told Brittany to get her GED before the next court date or her father would go to jail.

**CingularDuality** · 05-16-2008, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokingTarpan

It's apparently a statement from the father's sister that she sent to a blog.

Yeah, that just doesn't make sense to me. I doubt that we're getting the whole, correct story.

The way I described sentencing and probation is how judges all across the country do their creative sentencing. It's great because community service is often a result, which serves as a punishment, rehab and is a negative cost to the justice system/community. Some judges make controversial requirements and that's when we hear about it, but most of the time it involves making a thug spend every weekend for a year painting over graffiti, or having a thief spend every Friday night giving sandwiches to bums.

Switchcraft · 05-16-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Yeah, that just doesn't make sense to me. I doubt that we're getting the whole, correct story.

The way I described sentencing and probation is how judges all across the country do their creative sentencing. It's great because community service is often a result, which serves as a punishment, rehab and is a negative cost to the justice system/community. Some judges make controversial requirements and that's when we hear about it, but most of the time it involves making a thug spend every weekend for a year painting over graffiti, or having a thief spend every Friday night giving sandwiches to bums.

Very true, but the new article says the punishment was for violation of the court order. If the order is about the GED, that couldn't have come until after the girl was 18 because she was still technically enrolled in school until ater her 18th birthday. If it's violating him for a much earlier order, you'd think they would have said so...the court could have just said that he violated the terms of his probation. But then again, how long was his probation for? Was he convicted 6 months ago? Was he convicted years ago? I just don't see anythign that says they convicted him until after the fact.

Having done a little more reading, though, I'm pretty concerned about the idea of this case because Ohio law has specific punishments for parents found guilty in truancy issues, and none of them comes CLOSE to 6 months in jail.

Plain english explanations from the Ohio State Bar available here.

Relevent excerpts:

Quote:

Q.: What legal actions can be brought against a parent, guardian, or caretaker of a truant student?
A.: A school district may file a complaint in the juvenile court of the student’s residential county against both the truant student and the student’s caretaker. The complaint against the student might allege that, in behaving as a habitual or chronic truant, the student was unruly or delinquent. The complaint against the student’s caretaker might allege parental neglect for failure to attend a parental education program or for failure to compel the student to attend school. It should be noted that, if the student's caretaker proves that he or she attempted to compel the student to attend school, but was unable to do so, the court may discharge the complaint against the caretaker. Upon discharge, the school must file a complaint against the student, alleging that he or she is a delinquent, unruly, and dependent child.

Q.: What can happen if the student’s caretaker is found guilty?
A.: The person or persons responsible for the student may be fined up to $500, required to perform up to 70 hours of community service, or both. The repeated failure to make sure a truant student attends school also may result in criminal charges, a misdemeanor in the first degree, for contributing to the delinquency of a student. In addition, if a child is adjudicated unruly or delinquent for habitual or chronic truancy, the juvenile court may require the parent, guardian or custodian to participate in a community service or truancy prevention mediation program and either a parental education or training program.

**pedestrian01** · 05-16-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

Q.: What legal actions can be brought against a parent, guardian, or caretaker of a truant student?
A.: A school district may file a complaint in the juvenile court of the student’s residential county against both the truant student and the student’s caretaker. The complaint against the student might allege that, in behaving as a habitual or chronic truant, the student was unruly or delinquent. The complaint against the student’s caretaker might allege parental neglect for failure to attend a parental education program or for failure to compel the student to attend school. It should be noted that, if the student's caretaker proves that he or she attempted to compel the student to attend school, but was unable to do so, the court may discharge the complaint against the caretaker. Upon discharge, the school must file a complaint against the student, alleging that he or she is a delinquent, unruly, and dependent child.

Q.: What can happen if the student’s caretaker is found guilty?
A.: The person or persons responsible for the student may be fined up to $500, required to perform up to 70 hours of community service, or both. The repeated failure to make sure a truant student attends school also may result in criminal charges, a misdemeanor in the first degree, for contributing to the delinquency of a student. In addition, if a child is adjudicated unruly or delinquent for habitual or chronic truancy, the juvenile court may require the parent, guardian or custodian to participate in a community service or truancy prevention mediation program and either a parental education or training program.

Going by the bolded part above the Guardian can be charged of a crime which holds the penalty of up to 12 months and or a $2500 fine (source). With that said I believe the judge is well within his power to convict the father of this crime for the teens truancy while she was in his custody.

I was unable to find the statue of limitations for this crime but assuming that is longer than the time she has been an adult the court can impose those charges. The judge gave them a warning stating that if she did not get her GED he would convict the father for the crime that he did indeed commit.

Since there is no legal punishment for the truant child the judge could not legally punish the daughter.

I know the news story did not mention most of this so I have can't make any assertions of the validity of my scenario but I thought I'd pose a situation where the Judge was well within his power.

I still disagree with his ruling. Parent or not there is only so much one can do to force their child to do something, and it sounds like this guy tried a lot, including getting the courts involved in the first place.

**CingularDuality** · 05-16-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

If it's violating him for a much earlier order, you'd think they would have said so...

In a blog? No. No, I wouldn't...

I don't have the time or inclination to research further, but I think we have bum scoop...

Kerostasis · 05-17-2008, 01:41 AM

Not in the blog. In the news story. We were examining this story based on news reports for some time before we found the blog, and none of them ever mentioned a prior conviction or court order either. We just had to imagine there was probably some sort of prior order becuase without one, the whole case sounds insane.

But after discovering that the whole case sounds insane anyway, I'm inclined to believe it was left out of the news stories because it doesn't exist.

**CingularDuality** · 05-17-2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerostasis

...I'm inclined to believe it was left out of the news stories because it doesn't exist.

Having been involved in many news stories over the past several years, I'm not so inclined.

Morganan · 05-19-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

You're still not looking at it right. The punishment is 6 months in jail for truancy. After that sentence has been decided, the judge then says, "But if you can convince your adult daughter to get her GED, I'll let you go with probation." If the adult daughter doesn't get her GED, the dad's not being punished because she didn't get her GED. He's being punished for the truancy crime that he was already found guilty of!

That's like saying,

"I'll give you probation instead of 6 months in jail if Dale Earnhart Jr. wins the sprint cup". Since both the daughter and racecar driver are adults and not under the father's direct control anymore would it really be any different if the judge had said that?

**CingularDuality** · 05-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganan

That's like saying,

"I'll give you probation instead of 6 months in jail if Dale Earnhart Jr. wins the sprint cup". Since both the daughter and racecar driver are adults and not under the father's direct control anymore would it really be any different if the judge had said that?

Was the father responsible for teaching Dale Jr. to drive?

SmokingTarpan · 05-27-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Was the father responsible for teaching Dale Jr. to drive?

Well, again, that brings the question of whether or not it's legal to make one adult responsible for another adult's actions.

Switchcraft · 05-27-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularDuality

Was the father responsible for teaching Dale Jr. to drive?

Was the father responsible for teaching her math, or making a good faith effort to get her to school?

I would love to see a court order mandating all students get high test scores or the teachers go to jail.

**Skylark** · 05-27-2008, 01:21 PM

Pittiful situation. Sounds like the judge needs a slap or something.

I am an educator by trade. I think education is the #1 most important thing you can do for yourself. But whenever a court becomes involved in making a kid go to school, it fails 99% of the time from my personal experience. I ended up with a lot of bad kids in my room who were forced to be there but wouldn't work. <shrug>

For someone to want to get education
#1 - THEY have to want it
#2 - They need a support system so they can go and work at it. Having to work a job and raise a kid(s) makes education difficult at the same time
#3 - They need help in their problem areas - usually reading and math.
#4 - They need to see it will be worthwhile ... I guess this goes back to #1

Just a few thoughts. But sending a guy to jail because his adult child didn't do something the court wanted? Dang...

**Skylark** · 05-27-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switchcraft

Was the father responsible for teaching her math, or making a good faith effort to get her to school?

I would love to see a court order mandating all students get high test scores or the teachers go to jail.

I would have been to jail a LOT then. That's the result when you teach the low end kids. Heck, most of them came to me in the 9th grade not being able to ADD and they only read about the 4th or 5th grade level.

That is part of the problem with tests and the like. I'm very big on trying to get teachers some sort of incentive based pay... I had NO motivation to work hard from an economic point of view. I got paid the same whether I worked 80 hours a week (which I did) or if I just 'phoned' it in. But depending on how the thing is implemented, no teacher would work with the at-risk kids. They would all just want to work with the gifted.

ScratchMonkey · 05-27-2008, 02:31 PM

So what makes reading and math so hard for so many?

I found them easy, but I'm borderline-autistic and have the focus and concentration and isolation from the social groups to push me in that direction. It's hard for me to identify with those who found them hard, so I don't know if anything can be done to make them more accessible.

And I figure writing is that much harder, given the level of spelling and grammar I've seen in forum posts from some people I know are very intelligent.

05-27-2008, 01:21 PM	#43 (permalink)
Skylark Join Date: May 2003 Location: Kansas City area (U.S.A.) Age: 37 Posts: 1,261	Re: Man jailed because daughter failed GED Pittiful situation. Sounds like the judge needs a slap or something. I am an educator by trade. I think education is the #1 most important thing you can do for yourself. But whenever a court becomes involved in making a kid go to school, it fails 99% of the time from my personal experience. I ended up with a lot of bad kids in my room who were forced to be there but wouldn't work. <shrug> For someone to want to get education #1 - THEY have to want it #2 - They need a support system so they can go and work at it. Having to work a job and raise a kid(s) makes education difficult at the same time #3 - They need help in their problem areas - usually reading and math. #4 - They need to see it will be worthwhile ... I guess this goes back to #1 Just a few thoughts. But sending a guy to jail because his adult child didn't do something the court wanted? Dang... __________________ "There's two left. So there's one and someone else." Disciple Skylark \|TG PCS\| Skylark \|TG PCS\|

05-27-2008, 02:31 PM	#45 (permalink)
ScratchMonkey Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: San Pablo, California Posts: 4,565	Re: Man jailed because daughter failed GED So what makes reading and math so hard for so many? I found them easy, but I'm borderline-autistic and have the focus and concentration and isolation from the social groups to push me in that direction. It's hard for me to identify with those who found them hard, so I don't know if anything can be done to make them more accessible. And I figure writing is that much harder, given the level of spelling and grammar I've seen in forum posts from some people I know are very intelligent. __________________

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