Originally Posted by AMosely

but no, you can't really say the same things about Obama. Palin doesn't talk well - can't explain her own thoughts, especially when they're silly. She can't even explain the thoughts that were implanted by the campaign. Really - you can't be serious here. It's literally like putting a minivan driving soccer (or hockey) mom or dad in the White House. It's not supposed to work that way. This is worse than Quayle. And to come from a campaign that started the whole 'experience' debate, this is a joke - I don't care that much that she's somewhat inexperienced - so what - I'm shocked at how stupidly bad she is at the PR game - interviews and press. Seriously. It's a dog and pony show, and the pony looks great but apparently cannot do any tricks other than look great. That's not a good show.

Yes, I can say the same thing about Obama. Because I was saying that he didn't have the foreign policy experience until he decided to go get some while campaigning. Again, I'm not saying Palin is great. Only that if she has 2 years to train (actually, he had more than 2 years. You know he was thinking/planning on it for a while before that) she'd probably look a lot better. I doubt Palin had many aspirations beyond Gov. Otherwise, I'd think she would have worked harder at learning the necessary information.

But yea, McCain could have chosen a better person. We'll have to see.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

First of all you highlighted things that weren't opinions.

Yes, they were. (check that - one part wasn't - see below)

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

Second my opinions are in there for good reason. This is the Sandbox right? Unless we're quoting or sourcing material it is an opinion.

I'm not writing an article for a newspaper, I'm showing you my thoughts on topics. That's a textbook definition of opinion.

Then why did you say they weren't opinions?

But Correct. But if you want to convince me, you also need facts. I tend to ignore other people's opinions. Because they are just that. They have no basis on anything. When opinion is stated as fact, then there is a problem. That's why i try to avoid a lot of the talk shows - Rush L, Sean H, etc.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

Hmmm I don't know where you're getting this argument. I was watching NBC news the same day Palin went to New York and they stated that cameras weren't allowed to film the actual discussion. It's not an opinion or comment, it's a fact. They were allowed to film hand shaking and a little bit more. They were shooed out afterwards.

If you're trying to say there was no discussion behind closed doors, I'd totally agree with you. The whole affair felt like a fluff piece for Palin. The only shown parts in front of cameras was shaking hands.

Yeah, I can actually give that to you. After I re-read it... The part where they couldn't film was a fact, true. Therefore, they were hiding the discussion. I read more into your answer then was really there.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

Your example has no bearing. When it comes to foreign policy it's all about knowing policy. I wasn't talking about theory. Politics is all theory, say this, this will happen... hopefully. There's not much of an experience aspect to it besides improving people skills, which Barrack Obama seems to have.

Yes it does. Just because you say my example has no bearing doesn't make it true. I'd say your example has no bearing. It isn't JUST about knowing the policy. You also have to have experience in actually doing it. Look at all the people who know the theories of debate, but still fall apart on the stage due to nervousness or whatever.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

Palin is a horrible speaker, it's been mentioned numerous times. And if McCain did know how to be a good speaker why isn't he? He doesn't know anything more than anyone else. McCain technically should have more public speaking experience than Obama anyways.

Notice I didn't mark the part that she wasn't the best speaker in red?
But... She's not bad at prepared stuff. He speaches aren't too bad. Sure, she is doing poorly at interviews. Mainly due to lack of being prepared. Her history doesn't indicate that she was really trying to be a career politician. She doesn't know all the information that has been pumped into Obama over the last couple of years. The reason McCain isn't is because just by knowing a theory, you don't necessarily practice it well. YOu can get flustered, upset, forgetful, whatever. That was my entire point. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Until we see Obama have to really negotiate something with real value, we'll not know how good he'll be. But I wouldn't want to start saying how good he is based on him running out during his campaign for a bit.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

It was a hell of a lot more than just shaking hands in New York. Besides Palin is an idiot when it comes to Foreign Policy, even in "theory" as you said. She didn't know what the Bush Doctrine was, not even recognizing the term. That's a problem especially when that's your job.

I'd argue that. "Let's talk with some leaders who have no reason to care whatsoever about the outcome of the talks. Because
a) he isn't president and might not become president.
b) we aren't actually deciding anything."
He may have said some good information, but again - it doesn't mean a foreign leader is going to care in a real negotiation. (The same is true for McCain, but he has more experience - as does Biden)

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

Likewise if someone asked if Obama was a secret muslim and someone posted a link to a news article expressing. Is that not fair?

Not really. I think both are wrong. Until some sort of actual proof exists, it is just sad rumor mongering. I disagree when both sides do it. Should I start going to Mike Savage's information? That man is a crazy loon. "Liberalism is a mental disorder." Should I quote that piece of his information? That way anytime someone says something liberal, I could discount the information by that quote... cause he's a mental patient! But it isn't a good point or reference.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

You're right however I'm not trying to compare Obama v. Palin. I'm comparing Obama + Biden v. McCain + Palin. I believe Biden fills out the Democratic ticket making up for Obama's inexperience.

It didn't appear that way. But perhaps given the title of this thread, that would make some sense.

Originally Posted by Sirusblk

I think Palin is worthless. She doesn't have anything to contribute to McCain's campaign, and thus contributes nothing to the ticket. I'm sorry Skud the fact that she's a women doesn't give her anything special. I'd rather have the best possible candidate in office, even if that's a male WASP.

I agree with having the best candidate in office is a good idea. I agree that I think she wasn't that person. But I disagree that she has NOTHING to offer. She has an entirely different view. She has the view of someone who wants to go against her own party when needed.

Originally Posted by leejo

It's not scary, it's pathetic. Nutjobs on the right spread vile stories about Obama but you don't see me repeating it. You ought to be more responsible IMO, since you seem to know better.

I agree. I'm tired of listening to FOX and CNN. (Don't get NSMBC) I'm tired of NPR. I'm tired of lots of reporting because I am hearing so many rumors/distortions/etc.

I apologize to Sirusblk because he may be receiving my irritation on these things... I try to not do that, but I'm tired of opinion and rumors. I know this is the sandbox, but we can do better. We can actually give more facts. I can opinion/rumor with the best of them, but what's the point? If you win by spreading rumors or whatever, then you didn't really win... IMO.

Originally Posted by WhiskeySix

I'd vote for a McCain/Obama ticket!!!

If McCain is the P and Obama is the VP?

So summary?
Sorry if I took my frustration out on Sirusblk.
Obama is a good speaker, but it doesn't mean he will be a good negotiator.
Palin is not a good public speaker, at least in an interview. She needed a couple of years to increase her knowledge. She probably wasn't the best choice.
Opinions aren't going to sway my view. I want some factual information please and less stating opinion as if they were facts.
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