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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Is there a difference between this one and the one I posted? Just curious.
    Ooops. I did a search, but apparently I missed it. Sorry about the spam then.

    EDIT:
    I haven't been following this thread. The link came to me by way of a 3rd party and when I did my search I forgot the 'as' in the url and thereby missed it entirely. My bad.



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  3. #782

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by draeh View Post
    Ooops. I did a search, but apparently I missed it. Sorry about the spam then.

    EDIT:
    I haven't been following this thread. The link came to me by way of a 3rd party and when I did my search I forgot the 'as' in the url and thereby missed it entirely. My bad.
    No worries, it is a different address, just the same thing
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    So Palin supports a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, but McCain does not (he feels it should be up to the states).

    I'm confused. What is their ticket's stance on this issue? Do we have to assume it's McCain's way because he's the boss?

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  7. #784

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    What we assume is that they don't agree on everything, and McCain didn't choose someone who was going to drop all of their own views on politics to support "the ticket". Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you, I guess.

    On this particular issue, which one of them is "the boss" is completely irrelevant, because there is no way to get such an Amendment passed anyway. You think 2/3 of a Democrat-controlled House and Senate is really going to vote for a ban on Gay marriage?
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis View Post

    On this particular issue, which one of them is "the boss" is completely irrelevant, because there is no way to get such an Amendment passed anyway. You think 2/3 of a Democrat-controlled House and Senate is really going to vote for a ban on Gay marriage?
    Hum, so it doesn't matter what they think so long as there's no chance for whatever it is they think to become a law, given a 2/3 Democrat controlled House and Senate?

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis View Post
    What we assume is that they don't agree on everything, and McCain didn't choose someone who was going to drop all of their own views on politics to support "the ticket". Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to you, I guess.

    On this particular issue, which one of them is "the boss" is completely irrelevant, because there is no way to get such an Amendment passed anyway. You think 2/3 of a Democrat-controlled House and Senate is really going to vote for a ban on Gay marriage?
    Let us suppose that some other tragedy does happen and at the mid term elections dems get kicked.

    Matters then, I think.
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis View Post
    What we assume is that they don't agree on everything, and McCain didn't choose someone who was going to drop all of their own views on politics to support "the ticket".
    Didn't McCain drop some his own views (torture, big oil subsidy and drilling, abortion) to support "the ticket?" I don't assume they agree on everything, but I do assume that two candidates on a presidential ticket try and present a unified front so that voters know what they're getting. It's in that spirit that I ask the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis
    On this particular issue, which one of them is "the boss" is completely irrelevant, because there is no way to get such an Amendment passed anyway. You think 2/3 of a Democrat-controlled House and Senate is really going to vote for a ban on Gay marriage?
    It's a relevant question despite the fact that the bill wouldn't pass. If McCain/Palin support a ban, I don't support them. I want to know if they support a ban or not.

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by sordavie View Post
    Hum, so it doesn't matter what they think so long as there's no chance for whatever it is they think to become a law, given a 2/3 Democrat controlled House and Senate?
    You're rearranging the math here. What I said, and I'm happy to extrapolate this to other issues besides gay marriage if that's what you prefer, is that it doesn't matter what they think given there is no chance for that thought to be enacted in law or policy.

    In this particular case, the prerequisite "no chance for that thought to be enacted" is a near-guarantee. Passing an Amendment would require 2/3 of the House and Senate to be in favor of it, so even if some tragedy kicks the Democrats share down to 35% next election as Gringo suggests(fantastically unlikely but lets go with it), they can still block the Amendment. And even supposing that it somehow made it through Congress, it would then require the support of 38 State Legislatures to become law. Given that the general public is split relatively close to even on the issue, the chance of getting 38 states to support it is vanishingly small.

    On issues that don't require Constitutional Amendments to matter, I am much more willing to consider candidates positions even when passage seems unlikely, but I'm just not that worried about a ban on Gay marriage becoming the 28th Amendment to the Constitution. Are you?
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by AMosely View Post
    Didn't McCain drop some his own views (torture, big oil subsidy and drilling, abortion) to support "the ticket?" I don't assume they agree on everything, but I do assume that two candidates on a presidential ticket try and present a unified front so that voters know what they're getting. It's in that spirit that I ask the question.
    That is indeed the standard procedure. It is not, however, Sarah Palin's procedure. Incidentally, when did McCain drop his views on torture? I don't recall him ever changing his stance on that. Actually I don't recall him changing his stance on any of those issues, but I could be wrong.


    It's a relevant question despite the fact that the bill wouldn't pass. If McCain/Palin support a ban, I don't support them. I want to know if they support a ban or not.
    But as you yourself have already pointed out, "They" don't have a position on this. HE has a position, and SHE has a position, but THEY do not.
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    It's fine that McCain and Palin differ on gay marriage, and I'm relatively confident that it won't even be brought to the table anytime soon. My question has more to do with character and disposition on what I think is a non-critical but important domestic issue. Where a candidate (or anyone, for that matter) stands on this issue is an indicator of how they view social issues and where they form their opinions.

    McCain wants to dodge the issue by saying it's not up to the federal government to decide. OK. Palin seems to think it's OK for the federal government to seek a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. I want to know where McCain's administration would stand on this - are they flexible or not? Do either of two believe that it's a human right to be homosexual and in love, and that that relationship is deserving of legal and beneficial recognition in society? Something tells me Palin believes it is a sin, and that, to me, is philosphically and sociologically flawed.

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    Quote Originally Posted by AMosely View Post
    It's fine that McCain and Palin differ on gay marriage, and I'm relatively confident that it won't even be brought to the table anytime soon. My question has more to do with character and disposition on what I think is a non-critical but important domestic issue. Where a candidate (or anyone, for that matter) stands on this issue is an indicator of how they view social issues and where they form their opinions.

    McCain wants to dodge the issue by saying it's not up to the federal government to decide. OK. Palin seems to think it's OK for the federal government to seek a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. I want to know where McCain's administration would stand on this - are they flexible or not? Do either of two believe that it's a human right to be homosexual and in love, and that that relationship is deserving of legal and beneficial recognition in society? Something tells me Palin believes it is a sin, and that, to me, is philosphically and sociologically flawed.
    I think it says something is philosophically flawed in both tickets that people could be so opposed to gay marriage.
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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    The National Review came up in a recent CNN interview with Gov. Palin:

    CNN: Yeah. Governor, you've been mocked in the press. The press has been pretty hard on you, the Democrats have been pretty hard on you, but also some conservatives have been pretty hard on you as well. The National Review had a story saying that, you know, I can't tell if Sarah Palin is incompetent, stupid, unqualified, corrupt or all of the above.

    Palin: Who wrote that one?

    CNN: That was in the National Review, I don't, have the author.

    Palin: I'd like to talk to that person.

    CNN: But they were talking about the fact that your experience as governor is not getting out. Do you feel trapped in this campaign, that your message is not getting out, and if so who do you blame?

    Palin: No, I'm getting my message out right now, through you and with you, Drew, to the American people who are watching CNN, and I appreciate this opportunity. No, you know that, I am obviously an outsider of the Washington elite and of the conventional, I think, media, targets or media characters that have been a part of this for years and, I think that is fine, that is good for the American electorate to understand. They have a choice here in our ticket of having the experience and the reputation that comes with John McCain as being the patriot and the maverick in the Senate, you take that and you combine it with a team member who is new and fresh with new ideas, new vision, new energy that needs to be infused into Washington, D.C., with that commitment to clean it up in D.C. Put government on the side of the people and fight hard for Americans. You have that, that combination and I think that some in the media, maybe in The National Review, they don't know what to make of that, they're like, gee, she's, you know, where'd she come from, surely, you know, it should be our job I think they assume is to, pick and, and be negative and, and find things to mock and, that's just I guess part of the political game, I guess. But we're very committed and focused and moving forward between now and November 4, getting that message out to the American people that our plan to get this economy back on the right track, and to win the wars, put government on the side of the people. It's the right thing to do, and, I think we have the right message, despite the mocking that comes our way.
    I think her non-answer actually answered the question.

    It's painfully obvious why the campaign curtained her off from the media. She's still caught in the headlights, and many of her answers don't make sense because they are cobbled together from coaching sessions. They don't always add up.

    In the same interview, she cites a comment made by Joe Biden regarding a kind of international crisis that will serve as a kind of "test of mettle" for Obama if he becomes elected. Interesting comments in light of an ongoing international crisis - and possibly crises that the next American president will obviously inherit. For valid reasons or not, many people do not feel McCain is the candidate to best handle these based on his responses and actions over the past several months. Palin makes no attempt to argue this, instead choosing to go for the throats of the other ticket.

    Palin's response has nothing to do with the question asked and she stumbles on the specifics that she attempts to bring up. She also doesn't seem to realize that Fidel Castro is no longer the Prime Minister of Cuba and that the ongoing six-nation talks with North Korea have born enough fruit that direct talks are no longer an issue as the nation was recently removed from the U.S. state sponsors of terror list. If she does realize these things, then she brings them up because she assumes most viewers/readers don't know them to be irrelevant and outdated. Furthermore, if you're going to cite 'four or five scenarios' of crises as something your opponent won't be able to handle, it helps to know what those scenarios actually are - she claims that those scenarios are dangerous enough to cause people to re-think Obama as a candidate, but then says she has no idea what Biden was talking about. He actually mentioned Russia and the Middle East - not Cuba or North Korea - so at least some people - though apparently not her - have an idea what he was talking about.

    Perhaps she doesn't think about her responses and is just rattling off preloaded ammunition. Due to the inclusion of phrases like 'the scars to prove it,' I think this may be likely the case.

    CNN: Governor, if in two weeks you're not elected, do you come back at the top of the ticket in 2012?

    Palin: I'm concerned about and focused on just the next two weeks, Drew, and again getting that message out there to the American public. Thankfully, too, the American public is seeing clearer and clearer what the choices are in these tickets. I think, some revelation just occurred, not just with Joe the plumber but revelation occurred with [Democratic vice presidential candidate] Joe Biden's comment the other night that, he telling his Democratic financial donors saying that, he said mark my word, there's gonna be economic, and, or international crisis he said, if Barack Obama is elected, because he will be tested and he said there are four or five scenarios that will result in an international crisis with an untested presidential candidate in Barack Obama and -- first I think we need to thank Joe for the warning there. But, Joe's words there I think, can shed some light, too, in terms of the contrast you have in the tickets. John McCain is a tested leader. He has gone through great adversity. He has the scars to prove it. He has shown his true leadership. It hasn't just been all talk, and Joe Biden's comments there about an untested, as he had said in the primary, unprepared candidate to be president, I think was very telling.

    CNN: Have you guys been briefed on any scenario like this?

    Palin: On the four or five scenarios, that, well, who knows what Joe Biden was talking about, you know? It, all you have to do, though, is look back at Obama's foreign policy agenda and you can assume what some of those scenarios may be. As he considers sitting down and talking to [Iranian President Mahmoud] Ahmadinejad or [former Cuban President] Fidel Castro or [North Korean President] Kim Jong Il, some of these dictators, without preconditions being met, essentially validating some of what those dictators have been engaged in, that could be one of the scenarios that Joe Biden is talking about is, as a result of that, that proclamation that he would meet without preconditions being met first. That could be a scenario that results in a testing of our country, and, the four or five other scenarios that he's talking about, I don't know, I hope that Joe Biden will explain it.
    I still have no idea how anyone with any political depth (as in not just backing her because 'she's one of us') can back this woman as a vice presidential candidate. If you do, please elaborate.

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  25. #793

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    If my previous post was too serious, the Daily Show visited Wasilla to see first hand what the Mayor's job entails, which is not much. Start in around 2:00 if you don't care for easy jokes with the locals (though the last local tells the Daily Show guy he's a "complete jackass," which is a good one).

    http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...eal-america-in

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    That episode was hilarious.

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    Re: The Sarah Palin corner of the Sandbox!

    That whole episode had me rolling on the floor laughing. Talked my wife into watching it (she doesn't like watching things on a little computer screen), and I heard her laughing from across the house. Watch the whole episode, it was all good.

    Quote Originally Posted by AMosely View Post
    Didn't McCain drop some his own views (torture, big oil subsidy and drilling, abortion) to support "the ticket?"
    Him doing that makes me want to vomit. How on earth does the entire republican party not remember that just a few months ago, pretty much every single major republic big mouth was actually on TV and radio comparing McCain to the devil (they actually said that many many times), and they were actually saying they were going to vote democratic if he won the nomination. But now, you have Rush Limba (fat druggie turd that he is) all behind McCain, and that evil blond bitch who's name I can't even remember, that was non-stop talking about how horrible McCain was, is now all about "Vote for McCain".

    It is because he flip flopped on everything he used to stand for, and now tows the party line verbatim. How the hell is that a Maverick. He was only a Maverick till he got the nomination, now he's just the party's bitch.

    I really can't believe the media isn't all over that. They start showing all the clips from the primaries where the leads of the Republican party trashing McCain, and his run for the white house would be over in a couple days.

    I looked on youtube, and these were just a couple from just the first page:
    Rush Limbaugh's John McCain impression...ooouch!

    Worst Person: Limbaugh campaigns agaisnt Sen. John McCain

    Limbaugh Rails Against McCain

    It just completly blows my mind that Rush would even think about calling someone else a druggie. That fat piece of human crap should be in prison like anyone else caught with the amounts of drugs he has multiple times would be.



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