RudeBoy

i missed it, how did it go. I dont trust the news anymore so id rather listen to you guys. Opinions from both sides are rather welcome, and im just looking for imformation.

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Buckets

McCain was on the attack and Obama was playing defense pretty much the whole time. Pretty much what you'd expect given their respective poll numbers. Like usual, I agreed with mroe of what Obama had to say and while I felt that he narrowly won this debate, I suspect that judgment is clouded by my personal ideologies.

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The artist formerly known as "pecker"

Capt Splendid

I only saw maybe the first 30 minutes until my girl-type visited and played HL2. :]

In that time, I thought McCain seemed like every other politician I've ever heard in my short years promising this and promising that but never really telling how. Obama seemed (as it usually looks to me) relaxed, analytical, and logical in his responses. Perhaps this is a biased view, but while I watched, McCain was the old man who cannot remember specific speaking points and resorts to generic promises like everyone else; Obama was the modern-era, well-educated candidate with ratiocinative responses. Tear me down if you must, readers!

I'll second Buckets' comment about McCain attacking while Obama defended with the occasional jab.

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War.mongeR1

I am not by any means an Obama supporter, BUT I think he handled himself extremely well in the debate. Not once did he lose his composure, and he handled the toughest of questions pretty directly. It's not easy to defend some of the attacks that were thrown at him. The same attacks that Senator McCain were many of the exact questions I wanted to hear, and Senator Obama handled them with aplomb. Well done if I do say so myself. However, a silver tongue does not win my vote. No matter how smooth he answers a question, I was able to see right through him. The American public might be wooed enough for Obama to win, though.

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"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire

Vulcan

it was a good debate but mccain only got a few of his solutions detailed. He should have spent more time on that than trying to derail obama. The guy is just not going to give you an inch in that department and I think that hurt mccain.

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Uranium - 235

Well after the fiasco that was Kerry, I guess it's the Repub's turn to have a candidate with zero charisma whatsoever

(Seriously, Kerry? What were they thinking?)

AMosely

Not surprisingly, this debate was pretty much as boring as any of the others and included many of the same exact soundbites (and falsehoods). McCain did try to light a few fires, and I think he was successful in garnering at least one 'gotcha' line with his 'If you want to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago.' I agree the Bush comparison is not exactly fair, though McCain's neutrality to so many Bush issues does leave it as more of a question than an answer.

It's interesting to me that in these late debates you always see people claiming their team won. By this time, most people have made up their minds, so they're watching this while rooting for a candidate instead of openly listening to both (though as I've said, if you did really listen, you probably didn't hear anything new).

I personally thought McCain was being a jerk. I always wince when a candidate looks smug, rolls their eyes, or laughs (and Obama had a few of these - CNN ran most of the debate as a split-screen). Obama again did a great job of pointing out the things he agrees with McCain on, and is quick to compliment him whenever possible. McCain, on the other hand, seemed programmed to attack even when unnecessary. If the country is looking for a uniter (which it has been for decades), I think you've got your man.
If you disagree with me, watch the Frontline documentary on the political careers of these two men. They were both uniquely independent people at one point - now it seems one has gone more polar than the other.

DeePsix

I agree with War.mongeR1, McCain really came out swinging and Obama never once lost his cool, and answered the questions. I think the harsh version of McCain came off as angry and agitated.

I was shocked how cool Obama seemed despite constant interruptions and criticism.


Worst Part: Enough with Joe The Plumber already!

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Addict

Huh, judging by the online polls and this thread and even discussions with a few friends, I guess I'm in the minority. I thought McCain did an excellent job, and I'd give this debate, judged by itself, to McCain. Sure, he still came off a little heated and angry to Obama's calm...but I still think he scored in a number of ways:

He managed to keep his heat on point, with his answers and attacks focusing on the topic of the question
He managed to get a perfect soundbite in, attacking one of the pillars of Obama's campaign(that McCain is effectively another term for Bush)
Obama totally failed to make the point about Palin's suckatude despite being handed the question on a silver platter
McCain was able to drive home the difference in tax policy (that Obama wants to redistribute wealth) and "Joe the Plumber" really did make a good test case for their positions I think, so though repeated a bit, I thought it was appropriate.

As for the points made against him:
His heat never seemed to me to go into pettiness and outright rage or anything, so it didn't bother me, so it never seemed to me like he was being a "jerk", just passionate.
As opposed to just seeming "cool" about the interuptions and attacks, to me it seemed like Obama was hamstrung, stuck in his defensive posture, unable to fight back for fear of making a gaff.
Subjective perceptions and all.

As to explaining the online polls about the winer of this debate, I liked AMosely's comment about "you always see people claiming their team won". If you've chosen a side, I'd say it definately colors your perceptions. I also witnessed an interesting phenominon, where the more conservative people I work with didn't bother to watch as they fealt the earlier debates didn't go well for the Republicans, and that the vote is looking bad for McCain. They seem to be resigning themselves to Obama winning. I wonder if that is being reflected in the online polls and such as well. Not only are they self selecting to more liberal people(as the online population tends to lean), but if a number of conservatives have given up, they won't be watching or voting in a poll about the debate.

I really think if McCain had been this good in the FIRST debate when people weren't decided, had made some of these points to derail Obama's constant (and I DO mean CONSTANT, sheesh, I get it already!) refrain about "remember the last 8 years!", and had picked a running mate that would draw more votes from outside his base (personal opinion, I think Palin is not good for VP or potential P at all), I think he could have had a shot at the presidential race.

For all that, I did not watch this debate undecided. I have decided already, and this debate did not change that. McCain would have had to have some knockout power and Obama would have had to shoot himself in the foot to move someone from Obama's camp to McCain's. Obama totally played it safe, rather not risking the war to score some points in one battle. I bet there are very few undecided voters left such that one good performance could sway their vote. So overall, I think for McCain it was too little too late, but I still think he rocked this debate.

Kerostasis

Interestingly, for being one of the biggest Mavericks in the Senate, McCain still votes along party lines around 90% of the time. Of course, Obama votes party lines more than 97% of the time, but then he never claimed to be much of a maverick to begin with. I guess all that really shows is how unlikely it is that either of these men will be a "Uniter".

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AMosely

I don't view those statistics as strong indicators of much, and for a couple of reasons. Obama's only been in the Senate for one term, and it was under Democratic control half of that time. As I'm sure you know, bills are vetted before they go to a vote. The 'bend' in a party line often dictates whether or not a particular bill will make it to the floor. Once a bill even makes it, the votes are cast based on a number of factors - from party to earmarks, and with presidential candidates their votes are often weighed against a number of other potential factors and circumstances.

I think a better indication of these two men is outlined in their political history, where they've been and how they got there, who they confide in, who they work with, and who they don't. And no, I'm not talking about Bill Ayers, who Obama never did and does not confide in.

Obama has shown that he can and will work with anyone, he's an optimist, and is actually eager to engage the 'other side.' His positions at the Harvard Law Review strongly show this - he worked closely with republicans, which was unheard of in the politically polarized atmosphere of that publication and University. He's also shown, as he did last night, that he will keep a cool head even when someone is insulting him from across the table.

I think McCain's personal history speaks more to his bipartisanship than his record. He was a victim of failed foreign policy and war mismanagement - and he wrote as much in books and memoirs. When he said "It's a simple question" to Rumsfeld over the torture question in a Senate hearing after the Abu Ghraib incident, you could feel his anger coming through the television screen. How McCain can even continue to serve such a horrible government after witnessing failure after failure is a testament to his seemingly unending perseverence. Politically he and his family suffered some of the republican party's worst smearing. He almost switched to the democratic side following that election - if that's not an indicator of the flexability in his political dial, I'm not sure what is.

CingularDuality

Well, I'm absolutely done with Senator McCain. There's no way that I want a man with a turtle neck (I'm not talking about the garment) as my President. He just looks weird.

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AMosely

So you are one of those people who ultimately vote on looks? You're better than that!

I don't think it's fair to pick on McCain's looks. The poor guy has been through hell so many times over between the plane crash, the prison camp and cancer surgery. I'm really not joking. He's one tough mother.

Rincewind

This is why I wouldn't ever vote for Steve Jo--wait? You mean like a real turtle neck?

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sordavie

I have a professor of logic who only wears turtle necks, even during the summer.

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