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Discussion: General Forums / The Sandbox - Piracy - You can get lots of things for free. That doesn't make it wrong. You can
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06-20-2010, 06:30 PM #91
Re: Piracy
You can get lots of things for free. That doesn't make it wrong. You can hurt the sales of a product. For example, you could sell a competing product. Is that wrong? Depriving others of sales shouldn't be a sin. You shouldn't have a "right" to successfully sell what you create. The copyright granted by the Constitution is intended to provide incentive for innovation, not to guarantee an income to anybody.
Perhaps the current trend in extending copyright is just part of the overall trend towards socialism, in which the government must provide for everyone and so uses IP law to grant a living in perpetuity to anyone who discovers something.
This is a lot like the way guilds totally stifled innovation in the Middle Ages to protect their own from upstart competition.Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?
snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."
Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."
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06-20-2010, 07:44 PM #92
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Re: Piracy
You're changing my arguments to fit your own twisted logic. No, you cannot get something for nothing without their permission. I'm not talking about distributing Linux. Go ahead. I'm talking about pirating movies and video games that you have not paid for. It is the equivalent of stealing, only with the exception that a good or service is not taken away, only copied. It still does not change the unethical nature.
You're free to make your own hammers, but if you were able to walk into a store and copy a Craftsman hammer you are effectively stealing.
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06-20-2010, 07:58 PM #93
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Re: Piracy
Your argument is getting way out there, man. Re-read what you just wrote. Copying something is the same as stealing? That's crazy talk.
Originally Posted by Sirusblk
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06-20-2010, 10:02 PM #94
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Re: Piracy
Think about it. I make a program it takes me months and months of work. And then jerk copy and pastes it when I'm trying to sell that program to make some money. Piracy undermines a whole economy of digital goods and services. You're taking away my sales. Justify to me how you should be able to play a game you have not bought. Games cost too much. The game has DRM. Sorry it's not your inherit right to play video games. If you wanna play my game so bad, you better well pay for it. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
I just don't understand how some fellow TGers think it's okay to pirate.
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06-20-2010, 10:12 PM #95
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Re: Piracy
You need to think about it. Re-read what you said about a hammer. You'll not get me to say that software piracy is OK, but your analogy makes no sense. What happens when if/when we reach Star Trek technology? What if we can simply push a button and products are manufactured for us by directly arranging atoms? When it becomes possible to actually copy a hammer, will you still consider that theft? Seriously? Originally Posted by Sirusblk
The fact is that our concept of copyrights are outdated. They are simply becoming less and less relevant as technology progresses.Become a supporting member!Buy a Tactical Duck!
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06-20-2010, 10:21 PM #96
Re: Piracy
But to continue this to it's extreme...what if that Craftsman hammer has been specially designed to improve impact and reduce vibration ?
Somebody paid for that design work and if you could just replicate my design, you are taking value from me aren't you ?
I understand the idea that older works should be public domain but I just can't handle the idea that once I have created something..
The example with the Steam auto-logon was more spirit than letter of the law wasn't it ?You shouldn't have a "right" to successfully sell what you create.
But what if you played the whole 60+ hours of the game w/o paying for it, would that be OK ?
I think too many people are pushing this psuedo-marxism crap as an excuse to steal.
I'm not saying everyone but I think the large majority of people who pirate games or DVDs or buy them, are just doing so to save a buck, not to strike a blow for creative freedom in the name of the people.One man gathers
what another man spills
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06-20-2010, 11:31 PM #97
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Re: Piracy
Right, but copyright would mean that I couldn't legally make my own hammer either and only one person could have the right to a hammer. In the case of a hammer it is a patent and it would expire in a reasonable period of time because patents are clearly only useful when they are temporary, which is apparently not as clear when applied to works of art. Originally Posted by Sirusblk
Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.
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06-21-2010, 12:25 AM #98
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Re: Piracy
Then I assume that the USS Enterprise bought the hammer in the first place to make as many copies of it as they want. My point is that if you get something for nothing it's wrong. I don't care if you're simply making a copy and not taking the original. You must pay for that design in some fashion. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
I would agree. They do need to be changed but piracy is never justifiable. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
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06-21-2010, 04:21 AM #99
Re: Piracy
Oh yeah ???I would agree. They do need to be changed but piracy is never justifiable.
http://piratesonline.go.com/v3/game/One man gathers
what another man spills
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06-21-2010, 06:06 AM #100
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Re: Piracy
You're right, except it's not stealing... That's my point. There was a time in my life when I had a version of Windows that I hadn't paid for. I didn't have the money to pay for it. If a free, pirated version hadn't been so available, I would have gone without Windows. Microsoft lost nothing when I put a copy on my computer. Yes, I violated their copyright, but I didn't steal anything. They weren't out any money. Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
Wait, what? Do you think that pirate communities don't buy one copy of each CD/DVD that is released? How do you think they make copies to begin with? C'mon, start talking straight. What do you really mean? Originally Posted by Sirusblk
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06-21-2010, 10:37 AM #101
Re: Piracy
I watched Hurt Locker on DVD 2 days after it was released in theatres, and I paid 5 bucks. The movie sucked so I'm glad a bought a bootleg but I might have paid to see it( then I would have been really P.O.'d) but it was a bootleg copy from in the theatre, not a pro-copy from a store bought DVD.
The guy I bought from had about 30 other current titles.
Bill Gates said if you are going to steal software, please steal mine but it is still stealing in the legal sense.
Everyone feels that their little, miniscule act of piracy doesn't hurt anyone but when you add it up.......One man gathers
what another man spills
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06-21-2010, 11:23 AM #102
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Re: Piracy
Bootleg copies sold for profit are wrong, and different from online shared copies because they indicate that the buyer was willing to pay some money for the product, as opposed to downloading where someone just has to click a link and has no indication that they would have paid money if it had been for sale. Since the bootlegger is the one who is distributing (as opposed to receiving) the infringing material they should be held accountable. Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.
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06-21-2010, 02:37 PM #103
Re: Piracy
It may be illegal, but it's not theft. If you want to misuse terms, then call it "murder", too!
And it's illegal only because the "social objective" is to encourage innovation, not grant someone a living.
How about if I paint my house and then copyright it? Any pictures you take of it would be a violation of my copyright! You're "stealing" my work!!! And using my new rule of terminology, you've just committed murder, too!
Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?
snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."
Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."
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06-21-2010, 03:59 PM #104
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Re: Piracy
I don't think so. From Merriam Webster: Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey
It may be illegal, but it's not theft. If you want to misuse terms, then call it "murder", too!
Theft: : an unlawful taking of property.
Stealing: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice.
From the Oxford English Dictionary:
Theft: The action or crime of stealing.
Stealing: give or take surreptitiously or without permission.
When I buy something, I have effectively received permission to make use of that product. By pirating you have no leg to stand on.
I work for a company that has bought a site license of Windows. We're able to install Windows on a plethora of machines. I expect futuristic technology that allows us to replicate physical items to work very much the same. I'm not saying just because Jean-Luc Picard bought a hammer back in France he's able to replicate as many hammers aboard the USS Enterprise just because Number 1 has a hammer fetish. No I'm saying the USS Enterprise bought some convenience license to replicate items in bulk. If you really want to split hairs, the world of Star Trek has adopted a futuristic communistic economy model on Earth so it doesn't really fit our economic model does it now? If you want an individual copy you should buy it. In the instance where you pirated Windows, sorry you're not in the clear. You should have gone without windows. Either save up and buy it or don't use it at all. You don't have any right to use something you have not paid for. Granted all of us have probably pirated something at one point in our life for various reasons. I buy movies and still will pirate a copy to put on my iPod because The Men Who Stare at Goats has some wickedly stupid DRM. No it's not right and I recognize it happens. It doesn't make it alright though. Originally Posted by CingularDuality
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06-21-2010, 04:48 PM #105
Re: Piracy
Some tantalizing abstracts here. Click "One-click Download" at the top of each page to get the article.
There's No Free Laugh (Anymore): The Emergence of Intellectual Property Norms and the Transformation of Stand-Up Comedy
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...act_id=1138376
Intellectual Property: Theory, Privilege, and Pragmatism
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.c...ract_id=528229Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?
snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."
Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."
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