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Discussion: General Forums / The Sandbox - Piracy - My point is that, with Apache and Linux, you can "get something for nothing". It's
  1. #121

    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    Re: Piracy

    My point is that, with Apache and Linux, you can "get something for nothing". It's not immoral to do so.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

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  3. #122

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    Re: Piracy

    But you said that copyright didn't apply when it did. People wouldn't be as likely to contribute to open source projects in a similar way without the copyright restrictions in place. Copyright simply means that they have control over distribution, not that money has to exchange hands, or that it can't be shared for free but instead it just gives the control. If a company included the code in proprietary software it would also be wrong if they didn't comply with the license for free use that requires source code availability.

    The copyright on the GPL stuff should expire just like the rest of them in my opinion, since approaching it in a way that I agree with doesn't mean I think they should have that control for longer.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  5. #123

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    Re: Piracy

    I think what we're arguing is still largely in agreement. I say it's not right for Call of Duty to be pirated today. However Super Mario Bros. almost 25 years later should be released into the public domain and allowed to be downloaded. I would agree to this. Taking away a sale in any fashion is still stealing. And piracy is that, stealing, robbery, whatever. It's it's very definition. You and I can disagree but regardless it's taking away a sale. Piracy undermines innovation and the artist. It simply isn't right.

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  7. #124

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    Re: Piracy

    You aren't taking a sale by downloading though, you are infringing on their copyright based CIVIL monopoly on distribution. It is not the same thing, but I think we are in agreement on overall time limitations to make it reasonable. The problem with comparing copying to stealing is that it makes arguing for reasonable copyright impossible, just like trying to have a civil discussion on sex offenders. Once the slippery slope of comparing copyright infringement was established people had no problem with extending it because they now perceive it as a physical good that is stolen instead of a civil infringement. Stealing is always wrong, where as civil infringement came with limitations.

    Basically, associating it with criminal activity supports the argument for unlimited copyright.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  9. #125

    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    Re: Piracy

    George Lucas issues a C&D against the maker of a laser because it resembles a light saber:

    http://techdirt.com/articles/20100707/00151910094.shtml

    You can see from who Lucas ripped off his light saber design with this search:

    http://www.google.com/images?q=Graflex+flash+guns
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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  11. #126

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    Re: Piracy

    Lol sirusblk, still twisting and turning your definition of stealing to try and get it to apply. Too bad it's like you are like a kid trying to push a square block trough a round hole imo. What puzzles me is why you desire so deeply to call copying stealing. I mean what desire or sense of justice makes you want to protect the very people that do all they can to rip you off wherever they can.

    I would guess there is a personal way of dealing with guilt that might be a factor here. Something like a deep need for perfect justice, possibly connected to having something stolen at some point in time... Just guessing rly, but I'm trying to understand where your personal feelings and desires tie into this, because they are very different from mine. Makes me want to explore this issue.

    For me, it is my desire for equality and freedom, my love for music bringing people together and my disgust with the cancerous multinationals that are munching on those very freedoms, munching on democracy every day. Companies now are obviously more powerful than any state. That is why I couldn't give a **** if Warner Brothers, EMI, Clearchannel, and all that inhumane crap dies and rots away. There, you have my reasons. Enlighten me to yours if you want.
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  13. #127

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    Re: Piracy

    How the big labels screw musicians while protecting them from piracy:

    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...82610186.shtml
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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  15. #128

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    Re: Piracy

    There's no guilt. But when pirates are essentially getting something for nothing, from charity no less in the case of the big indie bundle, something's not right. I term stealing as getting something for nothing without the owner's consent. Taking unlawfully. Snoogums and others have pointed out that stealing is to take that specific quantity of product out of the store shelf so it cannot be sold. Regardless of semantics, I'm saying it's not right. I'm not defending the music industry or Disney who unscrupulously screw the customer, but defending those that make their living off of software like indie game developers. I'm simply saying it's not right.

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  17. #129

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    Re: Piracy

    Why something is wrong is very important to help people understand why they should comply with a law addressing that wrong and also allows for examination and discussion on what reasonable limitations for something should be. Equating it to stealing removes that ability because stealing is always fundamentally wrong (in modern society).

    If copyright infringement is stealing, singing Happy Birthday in a restaurant is stealing as that is a public performance of a copyrighted work. No, it doesn't matter if you are singing it to your own child either, personal use does not apply.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  19. #130

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    Re: Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by snooggums View Post
    Why something is wrong is very important to help people understand why they should comply with a law addressing that wrong and also allows for examination and discussion on what reasonable limitations for something should be. Equating it to stealing removes that ability because stealing is always fundamentally wrong (in modern society).

    If copyright infringement is stealing, singing Happy Birthday in a restaurant is stealing as that is a public performance of a copyrighted work. No, it doesn't matter if you are singing it to your own child either, personal use does not apply.
    Infact, that very thing is the reason why restaurants have thier own birthday songs. Some of them have been sued for public performance before (in the distant past) so they aren't taking thier chances.

    <04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
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  21. #131

    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    Re: Piracy

    Former manager of Pink Floyd:

    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/359458/m...-waste-of-time

    "Attempts to stop people copying are clearly a waste of time," said Jenner. "Not only are they a waste of time, they make the law offensive. They are comparable to prohibition in the US in the 1920s."

    "It's absurd to expect ordinary members of the public to think about what they're allowed to do [with CDs, digital downloads, etc]... and then ask themselves whether it's legal or not," he added.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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  23. #132

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    Re: Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by snooggums View Post
    Why something is wrong is very important to help people understand why they should comply with a law addressing that wrong and also allows for examination and discussion on what reasonable limitations for something should be. Equating it to stealing removes that ability because stealing is always fundamentally wrong (in modern society).
    Agreed, but when I talk about piracy I'm not talking about simple copyright infringement. I'm talking about people who pirate a game without paying for it, not to circumvent the DRM. I'm talking about people getting something for nothing when it does not belong in the public domain. This relates to new games, indie games, etc. That to me is Piracy. Copyright infringement is a broader term to me. If I'm misinterpreting the terminology then my mistake, but that's how I'm viewing the situation and that's why I'm calling it stealing or an actual act of piracy.

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  25. #133


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    Re: Piracy

    The mighty hand of the state takes down 73,000 blogs in one swipe
    http://torrentfreak.com/u-s-authorit...-blogs-100716/
    Nothing to see here folks, just move along peacefully.
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  27. #134

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    Re: Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirusblk View Post
    Agreed, but when I talk about piracy I'm not talking about simple copyright infringement. I'm talking about people who pirate a game without paying for it, not to circumvent the DRM. I'm talking about people getting something for nothing when it does not belong in the public domain. This relates to new games, indie games, etc. That to me is Piracy. Copyright infringement is a broader term to me. If I'm misinterpreting the terminology then my mistake, but that's how I'm viewing the situation and that's why I'm calling it stealing or an actual act of piracy.
    Mixing the terminology is the problem. Infringement is distributing without permissions, including making your own copy if necessary. Only distributing to others using fraud is criminal, otherwise it is civil infringement and there are many forms:

    * Downloading and seeding an Ubuntu torrent with authorization of the copyright holders - non-infringing gaining and sharing of someone else's work for free.
    * Downloading a cracked version of the game to avoid DRM that came with your purchased copy through a torrent that allows uploads to those that might download to avoid paying - infringement even for bypassing DRM
    * Installing a game on more than one computer in your own home at the same time against the EULA even if you only play one at a time - copyright infringement
    * Burning a copy of the game DVD for a friend who has a legit key but their disc was scratched so they can install and patch with their license key and not borrow your disc - infringement

    How many of these things are depriving the copyright holder of possible income other than to replace a damaged disc which should not matter since the license key is what validates their ownership? I only see one even close to 'stealing' and it is actually sharing to obtain the way to bypass the DRM that hinders the purchaser's ability to play a game. Infringing has many conditions that make infringement morality subjective.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  29. #135


    Acreo Aeneas's Avatar

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    Re: Piracy

    Quote Originally Posted by snooggums View Post
    Mixing the terminology is the problem. Infringement is distributing without permissions, including making your own copy if necessary. Only distributing to others using fraud is criminal, otherwise it is civil infringement and there are many forms:

    * Downloading and seeding an Ubuntu torrent with authorization of the copyright holders - non-infringing gaining and sharing of someone else's work for free.
    * Downloading a cracked version of the game to avoid DRM that came with your purchased copy through a torrent that allows uploads to those that might download to avoid paying - infringement even for bypassing DRM
    * Installing a game on more than one computer in your own home at the same time against the EULA even if you only play one at a time - copyright infringement
    * Burning a copy of the game DVD for a friend who has a legit key but their disc was scratched so they can install and patch with their license key and not borrow your disc - infringement

    How many of these things are depriving the copyright holder of possible income other than to replace a damaged disc which should not matter since the license key is what validates their ownership? I only see one even close to 'stealing' and it is actually sharing to obtain the way to bypass the DRM that hinders the purchaser's ability to play a game. Infringing has many conditions that make infringement morality subjective.
    In short: one didn't go out and steal a legit key/license. The DRM has been likely circumvented/bypassed, but that "copy" doesn't even have a valid license to begin with.

    You made a copy. Perhaps when and if you distribute that said copy, then it is just a infringment (or perhaps you already infringed when you made another copy for yourself?).

    On the other hand, if the original copier who made a copy of the copy stole the original copy and "resold" it, then it would be stealing (and eventually profiting). **

    ** The retail games you buy in the store (or even digitally) are copies. So when someone decides to torrent a game, they are downloading a copy of a copy.
    Acreo Aeneas
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