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Discussion: General Forums / The Sandbox - Tasers back in the news? - Originally Posted by CallousDisregard The El Reno police department feels that "an agressive posture" even
  1. #46

    Kerostasis's Avatar

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by CallousDisregard View Post
    The El Reno police department feels that "an agressive posture" even from somebody in a hospital bed is sufficient.
    http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/24/28330.htm
    There has to be more to the story but .....
    Apparently there is indeed more to the story. I haven't seen a written version to link you to, but this story just reached my local news where I heard a few very important details that were left out of your article.

    (1) -- When the grandson called to request "medical help", he was doing so specifically because his Grandmother was suicidal and threatening to kill herself. He wasn't just asking for a paramedic.
    (2) -- The "aggressive posture" included a weapon. Granny may have been bedridden, but she was still armed.
    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns.
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  3. #47


    CallousDisregard's Avatar

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    I knew that there had to be more to it.
    But I also want to be a reporter so I just posted the most sensational thing I could find w/o even attempting due diligence.
    One man gathers
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    Fearlessly, the idiot faced the crowd
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    did you ever wonder why we
    Had to run for shelter when the
    Promise of a brave, new world
    Unfurled beneath the clear blue sky?

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  5. #48

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Don't airmchair quarterback scenes. I have been on scenes where **** looks fine, then some crazy stuff pops off. If there was a weapon involved, grandma or not, the Medics are going to want PD to take care of business.

    These "Innocent" people usually threaten to kill everyone in the room before they get tazed! LOL!

    Oh, and stepping on her O2 tubing is going to Eff all. I am sure she could breath just fine.
    |TG-X|Turkish


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  7. #49


    CallousDisregard's Avatar

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Well it said the cops showed up not the EMTs, which would lead me to believe they had contact with this lady before.
    One man gathers
    what another man spills
    _____________________
    Fearlessly, the idiot faced the crowd
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    did you ever wonder why we
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  9. #50

    snooggums's Avatar

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    I had to find out if the 'weapon' was a fork and while I was correct to be doubtful I admit my assumptions were incorrect

    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/tag/lona-varner/

    In general, end-of-life circumstances are a no-win proposition when loved ones learn you’ve reached the end of your tether. Family — for very good reasons that evolution probably acculturated in our common humanity — will not want to let you go. And typically, the pain or the apathy or the emptiness that drives someone to suicide also drives him to internalize the guilt of abandoning his family, accelerating his desire to die. The law, in its absurd imposition of morality, intrudes at the tackiest moment — your death — to punish you posthumously by denying your family certain property entitlements that would be uncontested had you opted not to resist your suffering. Perhaps the only additional way to compound the law’s insult would be to add non-lethal weapons to compel you to stay alive.

    And so we meet Lona Varner, an 87-year old woman from the central Oklahoma town of El Reno, bedridden and respirating with the aid of an oxygen machine. In late December, her grandson called the police in fear that Ms. Varner was in the process of suicide. But the cops discovered that she retained an acute desire to take anyone who tried to stop her into the Void with her.

    Newser reports that Ms. Varner kept a knife underneath her pillow and pulled it when the police entered her home. “If you try and get the knife,” she warned, “I will stab you and kill you. I killed four Japs in World War II, and I would not bat an eye killing you.” An ugly remark at an ugly moment, to be sure.

    It was followed up by compounded ugliness. One of the officers reached for a Taser and used it on Ms. Varner, burning her to the point where she would require hospitalization. According to her lawyer, the police also “treated the frail woman brutally, ripping the flesh on her arms as they grabbed her.” Police have the right not to be harmed, without question. But is there a policeman alive who can’t disarm an 87-year old bedridden woman without the use of a stun gun?
    Granny was tasered appropriately. The comment about ripping the flesh from her arms as well as the majority of the article is sensationalist crap, but the details speak for themselves.

    Someone had a knife (assuming it wasn't a butter knife) and threatened police who were executing the correct steps that are involved with responding to a reported issue. She told them she intended to kill an officer that interfered and of course any physical altercation is going to cause injury to someone in that state. Since she could throw a knife and was threatening harm subduing her was appropriate.

    As I mentioned earlier though, the use of a taser around an oxygen device is very stupid.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  11. #51

    TurkishDelight's Avatar

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by snooggums View Post
    As I mentioned earlier though, the use of a taser around an oxygen device is very stupid.

    There are few faster ways to make me go from nice, to ******* instantly. Grab a lighter while you are inhaling oxygen, and find out what happens
    |TG-X|Turkish


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  13. #52

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Um...not much?

    Pardon me for not being the most informed on medical oxygen devices, but I'm fairly sure (1) oxygen isn't flammable, and (2) the air we breathe is around 1/4 oxygen all the time anyway. Putting a match to pure oxygen won't do anything special, except maybe make the match burn faster. So what am I missing here?
    Darkilla: In short, NS is pretty much really fast chess. With guns.
    Yoshi MCF: The fact that you speak Wyz doesn't disprove his insanity. It only proves yours.
    Pokerface: It's now cheaper to put gas on my cereal. I am saddened.

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  15. #53

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis View Post
    Um...not much?

    Pardon me for not being the most informed on medical oxygen devices, but I'm fairly sure (1) oxygen isn't flammable, and (2) the air we breathe is around 1/4 oxygen all the time anyway. Putting a match to pure oxygen won't do anything special, except maybe make the match burn faster. So what am I missing here?
    What are you missing? Explosions...

    Yes, Oxygen isn't flammable, but it will make that flame turn into a beast-ass dragon fireball/explosion. We are talking compressed 100% 02 here, not air. People get crazy burns regularly, because they can't resist the temptation of the thing that made them have to wear 02 in the first place....

    Increased 02 will also cause increased Temperature, which can ignite things that would not normally ignite at lower 02 concentrations.
    |TG-X|Turkish


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  17. #54

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Oxygen is the other half of any combustion reaction. If you already have fuel present, then adding O2 increases the total input to the reaction. You're essentially creating a torch.

    A person smoking and breathing pressurized O2 is essentially firing a torch into their throat.

    You might want to review the Apollo 1 accident:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_1
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

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  19. #55

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerostasis View Post
    Um...not much?

    Pardon me for not being the most informed on medical oxygen devices, but I'm fairly sure (1) oxygen isn't flammable, and (2) the air we breathe is around 1/4 oxygen all the time anyway. Putting a match to pure oxygen won't do anything special, except maybe make the match burn faster. So what am I missing here?
    You are pardoned.
    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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  21. #56


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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Now security guards can Tase you if don't obey them.

    They just might have messed with the wrong guy this time.
    One man gathers
    what another man spills
    _____________________
    Fearlessly, the idiot faced the crowd
    Smiling

    did you ever wonder why we
    Had to run for shelter when the
    Promise of a brave, new world
    Unfurled beneath the clear blue sky?

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  23. #57

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    I don't believe a word of the story. Just saying...
    |TG-X|Turkish


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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    http://www.news10.net/news/local/sto...72435&catid=55

    SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- A federal appeals court in San Francisco has ruled that police can't zap someone with a stun gun unless the suspect poses an immediate threat.

    Monday's ruling sets police standards for use of the Taser, saying stun guns must be used only when "substantial force" is needed.

    The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said officers can't Taser a person simply for acting erratically or disobeying orders.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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  27. #59

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    This is good news. Of course, the police unions and associations will say that the taser is a "valuable tool" and that this court decision will make their jobs harder. Or, the tired old spiel that we, the general public, just can't possibly know what it's like to be in their situation. This narrative, somehow, is supposed to make us celebrate the police even further and put a rubber stamp on everything they do, even when their behavior is criminal and not conducive with serving the public.

    We've been through all this before in this forum, but the Taser has become the modern day equivalent of the slave whip. It's overused and has gone way beyond it's original scope of use - which was supposed to be an alternative to lethal force. When you have police tasering elderly grandmothers for failing to sign a speeding ticket, than they have become tyrants and not public servants.

    I fully support the police when their tactics are moral and serve the public. But the expanded use of the taser in recent years as a means of compliance for almost every situation is wrong and should be addressed. This court decision is a step in the right direction.


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  29. #60

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    Re: Tasers back in the news?

    Quote Originally Posted by mp40x View Post
    Or, the tired old spiel that we, the general public, just can't possibly know what it's like to be in their situation.
    Not to take away from anything you said...

    ...but....

    ...You don't.

    It's said because it's true. The general public hasn't the slightest clue regarding the amount of ****heads that exist, nor the nature of police work. I have been in a few situations where I was glad PD was able to save the day. Getting your ass kicked is no fun...


    For sure though, Tasing people cause' they look at you funny is not cool. Haven't really seen that though.
    |TG-X|Turkish


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