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    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    No libertarian golden age

    The principle libertarian magazine argues that the 19th century was not the golden age of liberty many libertarians think it was.

    http://reason.com/archives/2010/04/06/up-from-slavery/

    Has there ever been a golden age of liberty? No, and there never will be. There will always be people who want to live their lives in peace, and there will always be people who want to exploit them or impose their own ideas on others. If we look at the long term—from a past that includes despotism, feudalism, absolutism, fascism, and communism—we’re clearly better off. When we look at our own country's history—contrasting 2010 with 1776 or 1910 or 1950 or whatever—the story is less clear. We suffer under a lot of regulations and restrictions that our ancestors didn’t face.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Don't forget that the concept of a golden age would only apply to white males anyway, everyone else was getting the shaft throughout American history. Some of the current regulations simply allow everyone (ok almost everyone) to have an even legal footing on basic issues, so we get some good with the bad.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Good summary of the article.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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    snooggums's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by ScratchMonkey View Post
    Good summary of the article.
    I didn't even read it :P

    Now I have to read it to see if you are being sincere or sarcastic, cursed winking smiley!

    edit: Looks like you were closer to sincere. Maybe I caught the 'slavery' in the link subconsciously but I already had that viewpoint on the whole US history, and I went with white males only as I was actually thinking of women, Chinese immigrants, etc and not just slaves as used in the article. So basically, yeah, I agree with the article and I do find it to be a clear example of what is wrong with reflecting back on so called golden ages.
    Last edited by snooggums; 04-09-2010 at 03:58 PM.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    What a great article. Nailed it.

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by Hambergler View Post
    What a great article. Nailed it.
    I totally agree. This was the best part of the article for me.

    No doubt one of the reasons that libertarians haven't persuaded as many people as we'd like is that a lot of Americans don't think we're on the road to serfdom, don't feel that we've lost all our freedoms. And in particular, if we want to attract people who are not straight white men to the libertarian cause, we'd better stop talking as if we think the straight white male perspective is the only one that matters. For the past 70 years or so conservatives have opposed the demands for equal respect and equal rights by Jews, blacks, women, and gay people. Libertarians have not opposed those appeals for freedom, but too often we (or our forebears) paid too little attention to them. And one of the ways we do that is by saying "Americans used to be free, but now we're not"—which is a historical argument that doesn't ring true to an awful lot of Jewish, black, female, and gay Americans.


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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    And one of the ways we do that is by saying "Americans used to be free, but now we're not"—which is a historical argument that doesn't ring true to an awful lot of Jewish, black, female, and gay Americans.
    Patience.
    By 2014, if not sooner, many of those groups will begin to understand that statement much better.
    It will be too late, but at least they will understand.
    You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
    So that when they turn their backs on you,
    You'll get the chance to put the knife in.Pink Floyd "Dogs"

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    lol. The sky will have fallen by then, so we don't have to worry.

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Would it be more accurate to say:

    "I wish everyone was free, like it used to be for white males in the nineteenth century" ?

    Sounds offensive :P

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroripper View Post
    Would it be more accurate to say:

    "I wish everyone was free, like it used to be for white males in the nineteenth century" ?

    Sounds offensive :P
    Accurately describing history often sounds offensive.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    CingularDuality's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroripper View Post
    "I wish everyone was free, like it used to be for white males in the nineteenth century"
    Stolen for my facebook status... Sincere apologies...

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    ScratchMonkey's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by CingularDuality View Post
    Stolen for my facebook status... Sincere apologies...
    Good idea. Gonna do that myself today.
    Dude, seriously, WHAT handkerchief?

    snooggums' density principal: "The more dense a population, the more dense a population."

    Iliana: "You're a great friend but if we're ever chased by zombies I'm tripping you."

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by aeroripper View Post
    "I wish everyone was free, like it used to be for white males in the nineteenth century"
    Quote Originally Posted by CingularDuality View Post
    Stolen for my facebook status... Sincere apologies...
    You and Scratch do realize that is sounds like your saying free to have slaves, right?

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    snooggums's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    Quote Originally Posted by Hambergler View Post
    You and Scratch do realize that is sounds like your saying free to have slaves, right?
    I don't get the logic behind your interpretation.
    |TG-6th|Snooggums

    Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.

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    Hambergler's Avatar

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    Re: No libertarian golden age

    I'm not interpreting it that way.

    I'm pointing out that out of the context of the libertarian sandbox thread, like a facebook page. It can be interpreted as being a very racist statement. The first thought in someones mind is going to be. "What were white men more free to do in the 19th century? Oh slavery. I get it." Not everyone will interpret it that way, but many will. A statement like that out there on open Interweb can be detrimental to someones personal or professional life and they may never know about it's effects. Just sayin.

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