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Discussion: General Forums / The Sandbox - Islam - Comparing one religion to another? Unheard of! The Pope doesn't have to tell people to
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08-23-2010, 01:00 PM #31
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Re: Islam
Comparing one religion to another? Unheard of! The Pope doesn't have to tell people to do anything, it's through the interpretation of the bible. According to the bible we should stone gays and disobedient children to death.
The facts are that Muslims are just like any other religious denomination, they have a bad history and receive news from the outspoken minority. Don't believe me? Let me google that for you:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Christian+Acts+of+Violence
How about the Klu Klux Klan? They're a Christian organization. Just one of the many fine examples of violence in general under the guise of religious pretense.
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08-23-2010, 01:01 PM #32
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Re: Islam
In psychiatry, thought disorder or formal thought disorder is a term used to describe a pattern of disordered language use that is presumed to reflect disordered thinking. It is usually considered a symptom of psychotic mental illness, although it occasionally appears in other conditions.
Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
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08-23-2010, 01:24 PM #33
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Re: Islam
You have to look at all facts to see who is right, you are just showing evidence supporting your opinion and choose to ignore valid arguments against it. Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
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08-23-2010, 04:56 PM #34
Re: Islam
Fixed that for you. According to the Bible, the guy in the sky will judge gays and disobedient children, unless there are people living on the earth who are without sin. I must repeat it in this thread: there is no Bible verse that could possibly be interpreted to give free reign to kill non-God-of-the-Bible followers, wherever they may be found. Even in the nice English translations of the Qur'an there are such verses for that religion. Originally Posted by Sirusblk
That's the biggest issue I see that makes Islam a dumber religion than Christianity. Those who *try* to follow the overall message of the Bible can become quite bigoted, but won't be actively violent. If you look at the numbers, you'll find that those who try to follow the message of the Qu'ran are statistically more likely to be violent.
On the Christian violence search: WOW. Of the first 20 or so, it looks to me like half are about acts of violence against Christians. Just because there are six million results for a phrase doesn't mean the words are in the order or context you'd like them to be.Last edited by SilentSunshine; 08-23-2010 at 05:03 PM. Reason: more
"The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying
something which is not everything it should be." — Edgar Allan Poe
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08-23-2010, 05:29 PM #35
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Re: Islam
Oh, good, you found a link showing extremist Muslims doing something, and therefore extend that to assume that all Muslims act like that, or support it, or condone it. You asked a (very insulting) question about moderate Muslims and implied that they don't exist, then wonder why I lump you in with people, like the ones involved in attacking the Cordoba center, who are quite simply bigoted against Muslims. Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
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08-23-2010, 07:01 PM #36
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Re: Islam
Islam is simply going through its growing pains. Give it another 600 years to catch up and its proponents will be mocking the new target of xenophobia: the Church of Our Lady the Giant Fire-Breathing Space Otter.
The rationally silly and absurd things parroted from the Qur'an are really no worse than, say, being punished to a fiery abyss of eternal pain for eating shellfish.
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08-23-2010, 07:12 PM #37
Re: Islam
I love being an Episcopalian, listening to stuff like this really makes my day. If you want to know what true Episcopalians are like then watch The Vicar of Dibley. Originally Posted by Bisclaveret
Also, judging by my experience in a few Baptist churches over the years, they'd be really sore over being lumped with United Methodists
At least the church of my mom's boyfriend I visited would devote hours of Sunday service about the evils of the UM's New World Order type initiatives and how Episcopalians were disguised Papists.
Also Callous, is it just me or does it seem like you simply hate the whole religion of Islam. Have you ever read Three Cups of Tea by chance? Or would that be more BS about "wackos that worship men in the sky."
"MacLeod" is a bad word - ProjectNA
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08-23-2010, 07:58 PM #38
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Re: Islam
Trust me, having grown up Orthodox Presbyterian (way conservative Calvanist, IE predestination, it is by nature that people are enveloped in sin and you're morally unable to be saved by yourself, etc) and switching in midstream when me moved to the much more liberal United Methodist Church (As well as some dabbling in Surat Shabd Yoga thanks to my mom) I was pretty pissed as well. Originally Posted by MacLeod
<04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
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08-23-2010, 10:40 PM #39
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Re: Islam
This statement is misleading, just like the statement that the Quoran gives free reign to do so. Originally Posted by SilentSunshine
Just because everyone does something does not mean that it is right to do.
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08-23-2010, 11:50 PM #40
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Re: Islam
Uh, I don't think so Tim, wrong you didn't fix anything. Originally Posted by SilentSunshine
Deuteronomy 21 (New International Version)
From the King James version just in case people play the specific bible interpretation card.18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
I'm not even going to bring up Leviticus which mentions people being put to death in every other sentence. Don't correct me, especially when you're wrong.20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Wrong again! Originally Posted by SilentSunshine
http://www.kkk.bz/jesus_christ_warned_his_disciple.htm
http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&...der+statistics
You're just not looking very hard or at all. Islam is not a dumber version of Christianity, it's simply a religion just like all other religions. Let's just agree that religious fanatics in general are idiotic murderous morons.
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08-24-2010, 01:24 AM #41
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Re: Islam
While we're being non-discriminatory, lets just go with "fanatics in general are idiotic murderous morons". Originally Posted by Sirusblk
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08-24-2010, 06:11 AM #42
Re: Islam
That is happening in Iran, sanctioned by their religious leaders, the same ones who rigged the recent election and ordered the repression of a popular uprising. Originally Posted by Razcsak
I never made the statement or assumption all 1.4 billion Muslims do anything, but Iran is Muslim controlled country so it is a good example of mainstream Islam.
I asked question and nobody can answer it, so how is that insulting ?
Did I wonder why you call me names ?
Not really
This isn't comparing religions, it is creating strawmen ie: the Christians are just as bad ... look at this or that in the bible.
The religious leaders in Iran ordered this woman executed, so if you want to compare religions, show me:
a: a country that is controlled by Christians
b: where the leaders of that country execute people based on biblical law
You can't because other than the Vatican, which is a country, there isn't a country in the world that has a Christian religious leader in charge, like in Iran.
And....while you are looking up biblical quotes ...try the new testament.....you know the book that Christianity is based on....the one about Christ ....the guy who talks about peace and love, not judging others,,, yada yada yada
But that wouldn't work for obfuscation movement would it ?
The whole notion that just because you can find something in the bible that is offensive or violent it somehow cancels out the explicit violence called for in the koran is ridiculous.
ohhh called it the Cordoba complex ....... they call it Park51 now because for some reason people thought a victory mosque next to a mass grave might not lead integration and tolerance.
Why should we give them another 600 years ?
Can a Muslim go to the Vatican ?
Can a Christian go to Mecca ?
Can a Christian even carry a bible in Saudi Arabia ?
When was the last gay pride parade in a Muslim country ?
Where are women's rights in most Muslim countries ? ( not all Muslims are from the ME )
No, I haven't read Three Cups of Tea but if it is an argument that "God" is real, then you are right in that I will think it is just another set of wack-jobs talking to invisible people in the sky, who then tell them to, in the immortal words of Frank Zappa, " Fold,spindle and mutilate those unbelievers from a neighboring state".One man gathers
what another man spills
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08-24-2010, 10:57 AM #43
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Re: Islam
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -Matthew 5:17, Jesus's sermon on the mount. KJV Originally Posted by CallousDisregard
" 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "
Or, for a more "liberal" interpretation, "Don't ever think that I came to set aside Moses' Teachings or the Prophets. I didn't come to set them aside but to make them come true."
In Matthew's time, the phrase "Law and the Prophets" meant the entire Torah/Old Testament (See, for example, Romans 3). He did not mention the 10 commandments, etc. Jesus establishes that the entire Old Testament is a piece of God-written, binding laws that are no less binding than anything from the New Testament.
For your argument to matter, also, that would mean the Pat Robertsons, the Oral Roberts, etc of our day should stop preaching about Leviticus stuff like anti-adultery, anti-homosexual, etc. Because those are part of the Old Testament law.
And a mall DIRECTLY UNDER the WTC site, mixing in with all the ashes and bones of the dead in this mass grave, is any better? We're building prime retail right on where this "hallowed ground" is. Why aren't we declaring it off limits to building if it's such an important, hallowed area, like most other cemetaries?ohhh called it the Cordoba complex ....... they call it Park51 now because for some reason people thought a victory mosque next to a mass grave might not lead integration and tolerance.
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The "Sacred Ground" argument starts falling flat when you allow McDonalds and Starbucks to build on it, you know.
"The design we have developed with the Port Authority calls for not only rebuilding the retail space that was lost on 9/11, but going above and beyond what was there before. We want to create a real destination for visitors and shoppers, a center that will share many of the attributes of the city’s great retail hubs."
<04:11:24> *** You are now talking in channel: "TFP - Task Force Proteus"
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08-24-2010, 11:41 AM #44
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Re: Islam
A country controlled by an Islamic government is not necessarily an example of mainstream Islam, any more than a country controlled by Phelps would be an example of mainstream Christianity. At various points in history, Christians have been far more brutal than their Islamic counterparts, but because, right now, they're not, the entire religion should be written off? Because a totalitarian state has a religious government, the entire religion is vile? There is nothing about Christianity that makes it so that if they were not in charge of a totalitarian government, they'd be any better. It happened, for many reasons, that the countries largely populated by Christians ended up being liberal democracies that eschewed, at least nominally, religion in the public sphere. That is why the "Christian" nations are not theocratic, not because Christianity is somehow better.
You choose to see examples of theocratic states and assume that it is purely the "Muslim" part that is the problem, not the totalitarian theocracy. Iran and Turkey were both decently progressive in the relatively near past, and yet, had Muslim leaders.
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08-24-2010, 11:55 AM #45
Re: Islam
Sirus - Remember that when you quote little OT passages, you're quoting from the Torah. I agreed that they were told by their god to kill gays and rebellious kids. Didn't you catch what I did say? They're not told to bring their struggle to every corner of the earth, bringing peace through submission. I couldn't get your first KKK link to work. The second, even though it links many sites, doesn't show clear statistics either. You can find lynching numbers, but not much more "Christian" info than "After the establishment of the Ku Klux Klan in 1867 the number of lynching of African American increased dramatically."
Bisc - Those verses of yours wouldn't be used to encourage violence by anyone who tried to follow the New Testament, because of the account contained there of the life of Jesus. He, the "example," didn't even resist. He supposedly let himself be led to his death, even healing someone who was harmed by one of his disciples. The main message there is that God's going to judge at the last great day, so get "right" now, so you don't get creamed later, by the guy who knows all, and has never sinned, etc.
The life of Mohammed is quite different. He... seems to have gone further than resisting, to put it very kindly.
"The true genius shudders at incompleteness - and usually prefers silence to saying
something which is not everything it should be." — Edgar Allan Poe
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